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Question about INFI
- Thread starter Avg_Joe
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- Jan 17, 2008
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Copied and pasted from http://www.bussecombat.com/infi/index.shtml
"INFI is a proprietary steel and heat-treat protocol developed by Busse Combat Knife Co. It is ONLY available through Busse Combat.
Some facts and info about INFI.
Hardness
Although hardened INFI knives are 58-60 Rc we have yet been able to chip an edge. The edge can be dented or misaligned but its high level of malleability at such high hardness has never been duplicated by any other steel that we are aware of or have tested.
Flexibility
In one of our performance tests, we bend a Battle Mistress 35 degrees in a vise and it springs back to true. Why would we do this? What does it prove? What is the benefit to the customer? Not only does this test demonstrate the enormous toughness and lateral strength of an INFI blade but, because our hardness is homogenous and not differential, it demonstrates the amount of lateral strength and "spring" of INFI all the way to the edge. That means that edge of the blade will possess this same toughness. INFI is the only knife steel ever tested that has achieved such high levels of lateral strength with a homogenous hardness of 58 - 60 Rc. No other steel has even neared this performance level.
Edge Retention
Many so-called knife experts have heralded the "wear resistance" of a steel as the key to edge retention. This may very well be true if a knife is designed and intended for the cutting of soft materials ONLY. However, we have never inspected a dull knife and found the edge to be perfectly smoothed away, like a ball bearing. Instead what we find are microscopic chips where the edge has broken or chipped away like glass after having impacted against bone, gravel, or other hard surfaces. This micro chipping dictates that the edge be reground during the resharpening process, which will ultimately lead to a thicker edge and a radical change in overall blade shape. Steels with high wear resistance normally score fairly low in shock resistance, lateral strength, and overall toughness. INFI scores very high in ALL of these categories.
Sharpening
INFI's high level of chip resistance also makes it the easiest steel to resharpen by hand that we have ever encountered. I personally fall into the category of "hand sharpening challenged". I've heard tales of those who can sharpen ball peen hammers to a razor's edge on an Arkansas stone in less than 5 seconds flat. My experiences have always been to the contrary. The spine of the knife is usually sharper than the edge when I'm finished applying my magic stone sharpening technique. One of the great features of INFI is that simply stropping away from the edge (the way a barber strops a straight edged razor) on a ceramic stick is basically all that is required to resharpen INFI. Since you're not chipping steel off the edge there is no need to grind any steel away. This feature of INFI will, likewise, allow you to keep the same overall profile of the knife for a much greater period of time.
How does INFI compare to other steels?
Simple question, complex answer. INFI represents what I have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel I've ever tested. Unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests. Shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". An ease of re-sharpening that you have to see to believe and higher levels of lateral strength at high hardness than have ever been achieved by any other steel. We have published our test results and our testing methodology. We have video taped all of these tests and play the video at the knife shows we attend. More importantly, we have duplicated these performance tests in "LIVE" demonstrations at many trade shows throughout the United States. We encourage all manufacturers to put their products through our tests and to publish their results. If you want to know how another maker's knife will compare to a Busse Combat knife, ask the other maker to duplicate our tests in a "live" demo.
Is INFI stainless?
Not supposed to be. However, INFI has demonstrated very high levels of stain resistance in many different climates. Uncoated blades have been tested for years in Alaska and have made their way into the wilds of British Columbia, the High Sierras and tropical rain forests. No rust in Alaska or British Columbia! No rust in the High Sierras, even when exposed to great quantities of blood and left in the wet grass overnight. The tropical rain forest, which has been known to rust plastic (just kidding), did offer the toughest of the environmental exposures and a light speckling of surface oxidation did occur but was easily removed in the field with a hand rubbing of sand and water. No deep pitting was reported. When compared to other cutlery steels in salt spray tests, INFI faired better than ATS-34 and D-2. Although all three grades exhibited surface oxidation, the INFI was not deeply pitted as was common in these other two grades. So, although INFI is not technically a stainless steel, it is certainly not a rust aggressive steel. Couple this with a minimal amount of care and you've got a fairly maintenance free knife.
With a steel like INFI it's easy to understand why we offer the toughest guarantee in the business. We guarantee against any and all unintentional MAJOR damage forever."
"INFI is a proprietary steel and heat-treat protocol developed by Busse Combat Knife Co. It is ONLY available through Busse Combat.
Some facts and info about INFI.
Hardness
Although hardened INFI knives are 58-60 Rc we have yet been able to chip an edge. The edge can be dented or misaligned but its high level of malleability at such high hardness has never been duplicated by any other steel that we are aware of or have tested.
Flexibility
In one of our performance tests, we bend a Battle Mistress 35 degrees in a vise and it springs back to true. Why would we do this? What does it prove? What is the benefit to the customer? Not only does this test demonstrate the enormous toughness and lateral strength of an INFI blade but, because our hardness is homogenous and not differential, it demonstrates the amount of lateral strength and "spring" of INFI all the way to the edge. That means that edge of the blade will possess this same toughness. INFI is the only knife steel ever tested that has achieved such high levels of lateral strength with a homogenous hardness of 58 - 60 Rc. No other steel has even neared this performance level.
Edge Retention
Many so-called knife experts have heralded the "wear resistance" of a steel as the key to edge retention. This may very well be true if a knife is designed and intended for the cutting of soft materials ONLY. However, we have never inspected a dull knife and found the edge to be perfectly smoothed away, like a ball bearing. Instead what we find are microscopic chips where the edge has broken or chipped away like glass after having impacted against bone, gravel, or other hard surfaces. This micro chipping dictates that the edge be reground during the resharpening process, which will ultimately lead to a thicker edge and a radical change in overall blade shape. Steels with high wear resistance normally score fairly low in shock resistance, lateral strength, and overall toughness. INFI scores very high in ALL of these categories.
Sharpening
INFI's high level of chip resistance also makes it the easiest steel to resharpen by hand that we have ever encountered. I personally fall into the category of "hand sharpening challenged". I've heard tales of those who can sharpen ball peen hammers to a razor's edge on an Arkansas stone in less than 5 seconds flat. My experiences have always been to the contrary. The spine of the knife is usually sharper than the edge when I'm finished applying my magic stone sharpening technique. One of the great features of INFI is that simply stropping away from the edge (the way a barber strops a straight edged razor) on a ceramic stick is basically all that is required to resharpen INFI. Since you're not chipping steel off the edge there is no need to grind any steel away. This feature of INFI will, likewise, allow you to keep the same overall profile of the knife for a much greater period of time.
How does INFI compare to other steels?
Simple question, complex answer. INFI represents what I have always dreamed of in a knife steel. Tougher, by an enormous margin, than any other steel I've ever tested. Unparalleled edge holding under high impact and in cutting tests. Shock resistance that begs you to "bring it on". An ease of re-sharpening that you have to see to believe and higher levels of lateral strength at high hardness than have ever been achieved by any other steel. We have published our test results and our testing methodology. We have video taped all of these tests and play the video at the knife shows we attend. More importantly, we have duplicated these performance tests in "LIVE" demonstrations at many trade shows throughout the United States. We encourage all manufacturers to put their products through our tests and to publish their results. If you want to know how another maker's knife will compare to a Busse Combat knife, ask the other maker to duplicate our tests in a "live" demo.
Is INFI stainless?
Not supposed to be. However, INFI has demonstrated very high levels of stain resistance in many different climates. Uncoated blades have been tested for years in Alaska and have made their way into the wilds of British Columbia, the High Sierras and tropical rain forests. No rust in Alaska or British Columbia! No rust in the High Sierras, even when exposed to great quantities of blood and left in the wet grass overnight. The tropical rain forest, which has been known to rust plastic (just kidding), did offer the toughest of the environmental exposures and a light speckling of surface oxidation did occur but was easily removed in the field with a hand rubbing of sand and water. No deep pitting was reported. When compared to other cutlery steels in salt spray tests, INFI faired better than ATS-34 and D-2. Although all three grades exhibited surface oxidation, the INFI was not deeply pitted as was common in these other two grades. So, although INFI is not technically a stainless steel, it is certainly not a rust aggressive steel. Couple this with a minimal amount of care and you've got a fairly maintenance free knife.
With a steel like INFI it's easy to understand why we offer the toughest guarantee in the business. We guarantee against any and all unintentional MAJOR damage forever."
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
- Messages
- 543
This is the closest I have come to finding out.
INFI steel = .50 Carbon, 8.5 Chromium, .36 Vandium, .95 Cobalt, .74 Nickel, 1.3 Molybdenum, .11 Nitrogen.
That formula could be debated...
But...whatever INFI is... there is something VERY special in the Busse heat treat.
INFI steel = .50 Carbon, 8.5 Chromium, .36 Vandium, .95 Cobalt, .74 Nickel, 1.3 Molybdenum, .11 Nitrogen.
That formula could be debated...
But...whatever INFI is... there is something VERY special in the Busse heat treat.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2006
- Messages
- 6,371
Here's a few links so you can see what INFI is capable of...
FFBM destruction test by Noss
:thumbup:
http://www.knifetests.com/BussefFFBMtestpage.html
And a great site with many links to... well... just have fun and enjoy!
(thanks Tyrkon!)
http://tyrkon.blogspot.com/2008/01/videos.html
.
FFBM destruction test by Noss
:thumbup:http://www.knifetests.com/BussefFFBMtestpage.html
And a great site with many links to... well... just have fun and enjoy!
(thanks Tyrkon!)
http://tyrkon.blogspot.com/2008/01/videos.html
.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2003
- Messages
- 5,057
We have developed a new ground-breaking heat-treat protocol at the Busse Combat Shop that actually doubles INFI's performance. It is very expensive and will only be used on a few select knives. It involves the use of a very unique quenching media to be used during the heat-treating process. We call it the "JWB Meteor Quench"!!!
It requires a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue and an asbestos suit. I have the asbestos suit, all you need to do is supply the bottle of Johnny Walker Blue!!!! (Sorry, Black, Red and Gold Label do not seem to work very well)
Here's the new protocol. I drink half of the JWB while your blade is in the furnace reaching the critical temperature, this offers a layer of thermal protection that will be needed later in the process. I then climb into the furnace with your knife when it is at nearly 2,000 degrees and quench the blade in a portion of the remaining JWB (This of course is captured on digital camera for your viewing pleasure). I then return the remainder of the bottle to you when I ship you your blade!!!! You'll then be able to drink the remainder or save it for your next blade. I think we can get 2 knives out of a single bottle (Unless it's a MOAB, in which case we can only get one!)
Your blade will be baptized in fire and christened in Johnny Walker Blue!!!!!The increase in performance will make your blade capable of splitting meteors while in flight!!!
For those interested in this massive increase in performance, please send your bottle of Johnny Walker Blue to:
The Big Dumb Drunk Guy
C/O Busse Combat Knife Co.
11651 Co. Rd. 12
Wauseon, OH 43567
Don't hesitate!!! If you hurry, you can be the first one in your neighborhood to have a Johnny Walker Blue Quenched blade!!!!
There, that ought to do it.
Webscrounger
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2005
- Messages
- 1,533
FYI - This is a gold-standard older review of INFI in my opinion.
http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/busse_bm.html
http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/busse_bm.html
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2006
- Messages
- 4,302
I think part of the specialness of the heat treat is the extreme length of time they bake the infi.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,009
From what I've heard, the extended tempering process also includes a cryo soak period. The application of extreme cold temperature allows the alloy's atoms to crowd closer together than they would at room temp and this can "work out" some of the normal defects or misplacements in the crystal lattice structure which, in turn, results in a stronger finished product. Of course, temps and times for heat, quench to harden, reheat to temper and cryo to wring out the last bit of toughness from the alloy INFI are, I'm sure, proprietary. (SECRET, Shhhhhh ! Code word, NOFOR, etc.) SWAG, as always. Pete
From my understanding...the closest steel composition wise is that which is used in wood chippers.....I could be wrong, but I believe it's called A8...I know Cobalt will chime in though as he knows a hell of a lot more. The proprietary heat/cryo treat is what really makes the steel though. Good steel is one thing....even EXCELLENT steel, but the treatment is what makes it INFI. Jerry has provided some of the steel to other makers in the past for them to try out and they couldn't get it to perform any better than your average steel. There's a reason why Jerry won't get too in detail...you wouldn't want that kind of info leaking out for anyone to use. Needless to say...Busse has an INCREDIBLE product. There's a reason soo many of us are nuts for these knives...there's a few people that collect and don't use. But the true nuts are those that have used them and seen what they're capable of doing! At the same time, because of the awesome designs and ergonomics, I understand why many horde them as well I have a couple that will never see the light of day
I have a couple that will never see the light of day I figure the closest analogy of what separates INFI from many other products is say you're free diving and the items in comparison are snorkels. The "other" snorkel being a big gulp straw duct taped to your face, the INFI snorkel being a fatty 3/4'' 1'' tube 
....you can't get enough oxygen to utilize your abilities in the water with the straw whereas you can get more than enough with the fatty snorkel. INFI eeks out all the performance of the steel that isn't utilized to the full potential in others.
....you can't get enough oxygen to utilize your abilities in the water with the straw whereas you can get more than enough with the fatty snorkel. INFI eeks out all the performance of the steel that isn't utilized to the full potential in others.
Cobalt
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 1998
- Messages
- 17,908
The chemical composition of INFI is shown below. But that is only part of the equation of INFI. INFI is related to the chipper steel family having 8% chrome.
INFI is:
V .36% Vanadium
Cr 8.25% Chrome
Fe 87.79% Iron
Co .95% Cobalt
Ni .74% Nickel
Mo 1.3% Molybdenum
C .5% carbon
N .11% Nitrogen
Modified A8 is:
0.55% Carbon
0.30% Manganese
0.95% Silicon
8.25% Chromium
1.25% Molybdenum
1.25% Tungsten
Bohler K329 is:
Carbon: 0.51
Silicon: 0.92
Manganese: 0.38
Phosphorus: 0.017
Sulfur: 0.003
Chromium: 7.80
Molybdenum: 1.29
Vanadium: 0.39
CPM3V is:
Carbon 0.8%
Chromium 7.5%
Vanadium 2.75%
Molybdenum 1.3%
All these steels have the same or very similar main constituents roughly 8% Cr and just over 0.5% Carbon. But there are other constituents in each. All the steels should be excellent steels with proper heat treating which is where all the difference is. Forging these steels is next to impossible, from my understanding of having talked to a few who have tried, and only done by the best of forgers.
Cryo soak is another thing with the HT process that some swear by and others say it does nothing. In fact some of the most knowledgeable people in the forums say it does nothing, but I cannot believe that. Anyway here is a link to a cryo thread I started and see how divergent the opinions are:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528760
crazy stuff.
INFI is:
V .36% Vanadium
Cr 8.25% Chrome
Fe 87.79% Iron
Co .95% Cobalt
Ni .74% Nickel
Mo 1.3% Molybdenum
C .5% carbon
N .11% Nitrogen
Modified A8 is:
0.55% Carbon
0.30% Manganese
0.95% Silicon
8.25% Chromium
1.25% Molybdenum
1.25% Tungsten
Bohler K329 is:
Carbon: 0.51
Silicon: 0.92
Manganese: 0.38
Phosphorus: 0.017
Sulfur: 0.003
Chromium: 7.80
Molybdenum: 1.29
Vanadium: 0.39
CPM3V is:
Carbon 0.8%
Chromium 7.5%
Vanadium 2.75%
Molybdenum 1.3%
All these steels have the same or very similar main constituents roughly 8% Cr and just over 0.5% Carbon. But there are other constituents in each. All the steels should be excellent steels with proper heat treating which is where all the difference is. Forging these steels is next to impossible, from my understanding of having talked to a few who have tried, and only done by the best of forgers.
Cryo soak is another thing with the HT process that some swear by and others say it does nothing. In fact some of the most knowledgeable people in the forums say it does nothing, but I cannot believe that. Anyway here is a link to a cryo thread I started and see how divergent the opinions are:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528760
crazy stuff.
You're kidding right
Just checkout the Busse website and your question is answered in depth