Question about John Neeman Viking Axes, Baltic Viking Axe ?

D

der_vincent

Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
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Hello Axe Aficionados,

recently, I have read much about the Axes from the label "John Neeman Tools" from Lavia.
So I have taken a look at their Website, and alos I have watched this YouTube Clip from "Chattanooga Bushcraft" where he describes his so-called Baltic Viking’s Axe “Braveheart“.

This Axe really looks beautiful. And also their Bearded Viking's Axe "Defender" Looks quite stunning.
Now, regarding the very good Reputation, I have no doubt that the axe head itself is of real good quality.

What I Keep wondering about is their handles.
Anybody has mad experiences? Especially I wonder:

1. how is the axe head atached to the handle? Do they use a wooden wedge? I searched o pics, but so far could not in detailed pics from above perspective.

2. they put leather stripes on the gip, just below the axe head, and at the bottom / end of the grip.
Well, that LOOKS great, sue ... but I guess, when you swing the axe, the upper leather stripes get in the way of the Hand ... and regarding the lower leather wrap at the bottom, it seems that they did some carving in the wood, where the leather is wrapped around. So i guess that the actual wooden grip's Diameter is a Little bit smaller under the leather. Or?

What do you think?
I am really interested, right now i am considering to orde a Baltic Axe.

By the way: in their "Northlander" axes, they indeed use metal wedge to attach the head.

Cheers
Erik
 
I have never used or seen one of their axes in person but this video wasn't on their site last time I looked:


[video=vimeo;196959534]https://vimeo.com/196959534[/video]
 
Hi Agent_H,

yes, the Video is quite fancy ...
And I guess their axes are meant to be used for real work indeed.

I am not so much worried about the steel of their heads .. just a Little bit 'bout their handles and attachment...

Cheers, Erik
 
I bet you are right about the steel, methods, construction, and probably the entire head being an authentic A-1 product.

Whenever I had looked up mention of their axes I was led back here as well as to several others forums. I think it was the Finnish splitting axe that I am thinking of. The makers posted it all over related sites and there were a lot of oohs and ahs - and rightly so.

The only negative things I see mentioned are:

1. People were turned off as they believed that is was an advertisement. Result - killed talk about the axe.

And

2. The handle they chose was beautiful but the grain runout was pretty harsh. Result - killed talk about the axe.

Neither one of those addressed the quality of the steel or workmanship.


My previous post wasn't helpful.

Their axes look quite impressive and if you have the funds and want to get one please share!
(Impressions of the axe, not your funds :) )

Looking at their site again just now, I noticed their Finnish Forest and Spliting axes are 23.5" and the heavier Maul is 30.5". That isn't the axe you mentioned but was interesting only as I was curious about their interpretation of handle lengths for that style.

As much as they are I bet you could make it clear that you are interested but you really want to make sure the handle is comparatively the same quality as the metalwork?
 
der_vincent said:
Hi Agent_H,

yes, the Video is quite fancy ...
And I guess their axes are meant to be used for real work indeed.

I am not so much worried about the steel of their heads .. just a Little bit 'bout their handles and attachment...

Cheers, Erik
Click to expand...

Erik,hi.

You're right about not worrying about the quality of Neeman metalwork,it's above and beyond most,if not all,modern manufacturers.

Haft-wise,you know,traditionally,tools were produced and sold unhandled,for a good reason that the haft is a very personal thing,best attended to by the user himself...(Her-self too,nowadays!:)...

Speaking of nowadays...Alas,much impression about axes(those in any way associated with the word "viking" in particular),is formed based on Hollywood,and comic books...In reality,ALL those axes were woodworking tools,the roots of their fantastic design stemming directly from their function.

However,the job of an axe-maker is to Sell axes,not to educate the public,and so even some makers as reputable as Neeman kinda flirt with all these silly,pretend,story-book concepts ,such is the leather-wrapped handle....It's embarrassing,in some way(to me,at least),but in NO way will affect the quality of their craftsmanship.
ALL the smiths cooperating under that general brand are Superlative craftsmen...
 
Hi Agent_H,

thank you Buddy, for your hint about the grain of the handle ... meanwhile I have found this post that you probably refer to. Interesting to read about that Red Elmwood.

And in case that I get a Neeman axe,I will surely share my impressions ...

Yes, you are right.. interestig to read about their Interpretation for suitable handle lengths (on their Maul ans so on).
Looking at their Website, i think that their "Northlander" axe is a bit more of a real user, in the forest.

About their Prices: indeed, they are not cheap... but my opinion is, if a toolhas the right Quality to rely on, then it is worth a good price.

By the way: I have got a few Gränsfors Bruks axes, and my favorite axe (in fact, my all-time favorite cutting tool) is their "bearded axe with an eye-socket". You can see this axe here in a video, in Minute 13:00 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GUzHYdOgWA

The Neeman Baltic Axe head looks similar to me, at least regarding te Beard. But it ha no huge eye-socket, like my Gränsfors. ... Only with a longer handle (what i probably would appreciate!). But I would trust a Hickory handle or Ash handle more, i think.

Best, Erik




Until now, I mainly have axes
 
Hi Jake,

thanks, Buddy, ... i guess you make a good Point: if an axe carries the word "Viking" in the title, then it creates high expectatitons.
In the old days, these were as much tools as weapons... users. I like that concept... the "swiss army knife" of that Age, he he.

By the way, there is a cool Video of an axe that seems to be a Special Edition of the Neeman Folks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7vWoGzRc10

now, THATS impressing ... but probably not so uch a "User" for the forest...

Cheers, Erik
 
I have a John Neeman 8th Century Viking Battle Axe reproduction. These are fully functional Axes. The handle is made from Latvian sourced European Red Elm. It's beautiful and very sturdy. The founder of the company, Jekabs Dimiters, profiles most of the handles himself. He is a Master Woodworker who also makes a beautiful wooden Tool Box that is a Joiner's dream. Jekabs and his folks did some testing with the various woods they use to Haft their Axes and knives to determine if what they knew about the woods intuitively, would hold up under more rigid testing. In short, Red Elm turned out to be a really great wood to use for Axes. It's a dense, straight grain, hardwood that has the ability to flex when used hard. It is also the historically the wood used for these types of purpose in Latvia for hundreds if not thousands of years.

The handles, with the Head mounted and wedged, are soaked for 24-hours in a 70/30 percent mix of Tung Oil and Citrus Solvent. The thought behind this is the wood will swell, dry, and stabilize, cinching the Head in-place. The JNT Axe I use for bowl and spoon carving is well-used and still solid as a rock.

I can only speak for this particular Axe, but the Wedge is wood, and historically correct. The Head is solid and can be used as a lightweight Hewing Axe in addition to splitting the occasional Saxon Helm.

I've used it to cut some storm-downed southern Live Oak. Not the toughest material on earth, but a fair test for a 'Wall Hanger". Because of it's shape, it has a tendency to flop from one side or the other, you have to hold it tight to to make a solid cut. But, cut it did. The Axe made short work of a 8" log and then splitting into usable firewood.

Not a test to destruction, but it will function as an Axe.

SJ
 
Good Morning SJ,

thanks a lot Buddy, your description is highly helpful :thumbup: and very convincing. Interesting, this Mix of Tug Oil and Citrus Solvent for the handles.

Also interesting that you do carving (bowl and spoon carving). This is an art that I really admire!

Best, Erik
 
Good report, Scooter. Thank you.

The Real Milk Paint company sells a 50/50 tung/citrus blend. I've found it very slow curing - having to wait several days between coats. It looks good, just takes longer to finish a haft.

I have a few Elm blanks in the garage waiting for projects. I'm not sure the variety - maybe American Elm. Because it's difficult to split I chose it for an auger handle. Elm is tough stuff.
Auger1.jpg
 
Mr. Square_peg...The Real Milk Paint 50/50 Tung Oil and Citrus Solvent is my favorite wood preservative. I use it on my Spoons, bowls, and wooden handles of my woodworking tools. Great stuff. I learned JNT used a 70/30 mix, and then when I attended The Country Workshop Spoon and Bowl carving class, Drew Langsner (Owner/Operator) recommended we use the 50/50 mix. The other good thing is it's food safe, so you don't have to worry about it leeching into your food.

SJ
 
SJ,likewise,likewise,thank you for an informative,concise post.
(your "viking" has a bit of a trouble tilting,presumably,for being hung funny?Would a super-open,Ronnquist-ish configuration change all that?).
Great info on treatment,thank you guys, had no idea anything like that could be food-safe.
 
(Somewhat off topic),Square_peg,great job on that auger-handle.

IF you wanted to further assure integrity,a couple of saddles,tapped for that square taper,just a couple of half-pipes,cut vrom some what,Sch 40,i suppose will do?(even thinner?).....Especially if you do have a threaded/nutted end on the other side....
 
"SJ,likewise,likewise,thank you for an informative,concise post.
(your "viking" has a bit of a trouble tilting,presumably,for being hung funny?Would a super-open,Ronnquist-ish configuration change all that?).
Great info on treatment,thank you guys, had no idea anything like that could be food-safe."

The '8th Century Viking Battle Axe' repro is historically classified as a 'Jan Petersen Axe Type 'C'. At least it's the closest looking and fits within the proper time period. It's hafted perfectly fine, but the overall shape of the Axe Head itself makes it prone to 'flop' to one side or the other. The shape is flat top, fairly deep Beard and Oval Eye at the Poll of the Axe. Sorry, I have never learned how to post images here and I don't place my personal images in the cloud, Flicker, etc. If, your interested, do a Google Search on Jan Petersen Axe Typology.

SJ
 
Right,SJ,i understand,and under no circumstances mean to cast aspersions on the Quality of the hafting.

Here's your typical Petersen Type C,http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=224116 ,is that correct?

Well,with all due respect to Jan Petersen,he's never explored the possible hafting configurations,or,what's very important,the possible Uses of many of these old tools.....

Unfortunately,hardy Any historic axes were found with even the remnants of organics inside the eye,let alone intact hafts...

My point,again,is that the purpose of the tool was not interpreted Optimally correctly,and the haft design does not entirely match that specific use that you have attempted to put that tool to...

And,privately,i believe similar axes to've been intended for fairly precise,final-stage hewing....(based on the edge geometry).

All of the above strictly my opinion,and in no wise is meant to disrespect anyone elses.
 
Mr. Agent_H...Thank you for the image. My JNT 8th C. Viking Battle Axe is a dead-ringer for the Petersen Type 'C', left-hand column, 3rd Axe Head down. Including the small blade catcher/bottle-opener on the bottom of the Poll. : )

Mr. jake pogg,,,ROTFLMAO!! I freely admit to being way too OCD on these things. No need to apologize. I didn't think you were 'casting aspersions'. And, if I came off as insulted I apologize.

The JNT 8th C. Viking Battle Axe is definitely a keeper. And, while it is technically a 'wall hanger', it's nice to know, if you did have to press it into service, it still functions as an Axe.

Regarding 'Historically correct'. I guess in the truest sense of the word, the Viking Blacksmiths didn't have the quality of steel this Axe is made from. Thhey certainly didn't have Bohler Tool Steel for the Bit.

It's been determined scientifically, the best Viking swords were made from Crucible steel, a technology the Vikings did not posses. They either pillaged or bartered the steel from the middle-east. After the Vikings finished killing, raping and pillaging, they usually set-up trade agreements. It often gets overlooked, but the Vikings were great explorers, Merchants, and Traders. Moscow and Kiev were both originally Viking trading centers.

SJ
 
SJ,thank you for taking it in a right way.

Yes,you're very much right in that too often overlooked fact:The vikings were tremendous Travellers,Merchants,Navigators....Many other things,way more interesting than the violent fighting that everyone,back then,engaged in regularly...

In a Large sense you're quite correct,they were not really known for producing their own metals or metalwork,but i'd say that so far,Most evidence speaks of the trade with Frankish sorta peoples,vs the Orient....(that theory by the most esteemed Dr.Williams IS a theory,and have Not been proven conclusively,in fact,there's a bit of controversy there...).In the more accepted theory the vikings obtained most of their ferrous alloys from the those tribes along the Rhine,the successors to the Merovingian,and later the Carolingian kingdoms,and still,to this day,so good at metalwork and related trades...(Solingen et c.).

And yes,in a Modern sense,their steel alloys were in a number of ways inferior to ours,however,any material can really be judged objectively only relative it's intended purpose....So,for the kind of engineering with wood that their purposes called for,their alloys were Plenty sufficient....(very close to the "plain" carbon steel alloys of today,AISI 1084;1095,et c...nothing wrong with those,for woodworking tools...).

Similarly,in a general sense,you're right about the manner in how widely their trade-routes ranged.Not so importantly to Kievan Rus(which was a rich,but boring agrarian country it still is today:),and certainly not Moscow(my home town:),which was then populated by a number of swampy-forest dwelling tribes,and only good for a few mediocre-quality slaves,and even that only occasionally...:)....
The important connection was between Novgorod in the north,by means of lakes and rivers,eventually Volga r.,to it's mouth on the Caspian sea.That is to the east of the Caucasus mountain range,and the western terminus of the caravan routes leading eastward,to Samarkand,Bukhara,et c...The Real East....
(curiously,the origins of metalwork,as per a number of "viking" myths,is in the Caucasus mountains themselves,among the dwarves,dwelling deep underground...:)...Curiously enough,there actually IS some historic evidence of crucible steel production there....(Georgia,et c.).

Sorry to run on and on...:)...Yes,we're agreed here,there's quite a bit to them there viking tools,any way you slice it or dice it...:)
 
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