question about lock strength

silverwing · Oct 29, 1999

i've handled several Sebenzas both small and large, and i have found that i am completely unable to release the lock and fold the knife back up again. i can get them open, just not closed. even the one umfaan i tried took more effort (and both hands) than one should be making for something that sharp.

do the locks "loosen up" over time? do other folks have problems with this? tips/tricks?

most importantly, anne & chris: if i managed to save up the bucks and finally order my own chris reeve, would there be any possibility that the lock strength could be adjusted a bit for my hands? could this be done without sacrificing the overall integrity of the handle?

i had a hand injury a while back (damaged nerve), so I know my hands are not as strong as some folks' are. being a smallish woman, i just don't have super hand strength overall anyway.

i'm asking because i'm thinking maybe i want my very own sebenza eventually, but it's silly to even consider buying a knife i can't operate safely. holding my SO's sebenza is a joy, and using it a pleasure--as long as i put my pride away and let him close it for me afterwards.

thanks--and realize it's taking a lot of courage to admit that i'm not strong enough to operate these beautiful knives! i'm not a wimp, just not wonderwoman either...

silverwing

storyville · Oct 31, 1999

How unfortunate an injury, Silverwing -- no doubt opening/closing a knife is the least of the challenges it poses!

Folks have mentioned having some difficulty w/the Sebenza lock before, tho' not to the degree you describe. Do you also experience similar difficulty w/liner locks generally? I ask because, in some respects, the Sebenza lock should (theoretically) be easier to disengage than many others. Due to its large size relative to typical liner locks, it should be easier to access. Also, while the locks thickness gives it greater strength, it also should prevent the bar from jamming, at least not as severely as thinner bars. But again, this is all in principle.

Since youve handled a few Sebenzas, its obviously not a problem w/a particular model. Most folks, I believe, open their Sebenzas slowly, w/a smooth action till it solidly locks. But some folks also slam it open w/a flick of the wrist (okay, okay, I admit I do it, too, sometimes -- gives that nice solid click!). Neither way should harm the lock, but the wrist-flicking could jam it in further. So if you have access to a Benz, try opening it at a few different speeds to see if it keeps the bar from lock too snugly. (Ironically, more folks seem to have difficulty *opening* rather than closing the Sebenza...!)

Also, at least on the large model I have, the locking bar is very easy to pull out of the way w/my left hand as I hold the knife (blade edge up) w/my right hand. Your difficulty w/the Umfaan, Id suspect, has to do w/its size. I havent handled one in some time, but I imagine the small and large Sebenza locks may be easier to disengage, simply because theyre easier to access. (But be sure to get your fingers out of the way!)

The Sebenza is a great folder, and no doubt everyone on this particular forum would want you to try everything before giving up on it! If it doesnt work out, there are certainly other great folding knives out there -- and Bladeforums is the right place to find out what might be best for your needs/interests. But hopefully the lock problem youre experiencing doesnt persist, and you can become a full-fledged member of our cult! Give it another go, and good luck --

Glen

silverwing · Nov 1, 1999

thank you for the very thoughtful post, storyville. and if it is possible to be a full-fledged CR cult member without actually owning a CR, i'm there! nice to have an SO who is generous enough to let me play with his beloved sebbie--but sometimes he wants it back

liner locks in general vary as to ease of operation. it seems to depend on the thickness of the liner, how far it travels on the ramp, angle of the bend the liner makes, and how accessible the liner is to fingers. (there are some pretty stiff lockbacks out thar, too.) knives are excellent hand therapy, actually!

interesting point about the speed of opening the knife affecting how the lock clicks in. never thought of that. the small sebenza i'm playing with right now is fairly easy to open, with a bit of a push right at the end (and that satisfying CLICK!). i'll give your suggestion about different opening speeds a try.

watching myself close it, i notice the following:

1. my thumb has trouble finding a secure resting place on the liner lock. the surface area of the spot where my thumb falls, behind the notch, is very narrow. despite the ridges on the lock, my thumb slips across the liner sometimes. (wouldn't this be true of everyone?) when combined with the force needed for me to push it aside, this slippage is a problem.

2. once i get my thumb in place, it is hard to get enough leverage to push against that very small spot. this is where hand strength & size come in. i find myself making a tight fist, crunching the clip against the back with the last three fingers of my right hand, so that the end of the knife presses into the fleshy part of my thumb. at this point, my thumb & part of my palm are pressed across the body of the knife, right in harm's way, with enough force being applied that it would be tough to get out of the way in a hurry.

3. the amount of force i must apply is sufficient that i worry about slipping. to prevent tragedy, and to give myself a better grip, i find that i usually pinch the bottom of the blade, down by the thumbstud, with the thumb and index finger of my left hand as i push open the linerlock. (so much for one-handed operation!)

4. if i exaggerate the direction of the force to mimic a "slip", my hand rolls over and the blade closes on my fingers (unless i'm holding it open with my other hand). with less control, i'm worried i'd send my thumb flying across that lovely sharp blade...

there, more detail than anyone ever wanted to know about how silverwing closes a sebenza-- LOL!

my concern is that the amount of force, coupled with the small slippery footprint where thumb meets lock, could be a safety hazard. i'd never try to use this knife when wet, for example, or in any kind of rushed situation like an emergency.

the umfaan i tried was a really sweet knife, but like you say, it was almost too small--hard to find the liner lock when you needed it.

have no fear that i will give up on sebenzas...anyone who has spent as much time as i have worrying about operating one particular knife, in addition to time spent debating the merits of this decoration over that one, is not about to give up very easily

thanks again...hm, wonder if i can write off a sebbie as a physical therapy device?

silverwing

ThomM · Nov 1, 1999

silverwing,
I think you will find that CR suggests you push in an outward motion in the action of "swinging" the lock open instead of pushing straight down you will have more ease of opening,
I would suggest that if you could find a Sebenza with the old, discountinued profile of the handle, you would find they have a larger cutout for thumb access and are easier to open as you can get more area of the lock bar to push.
I have both styles and I notice that.
Maybe CR can make you a Sebenza with a larger cutout, ala the old style, to overcome your slight disability?

James Mattis · Nov 2, 1999

If an integral lock release is difficult when there is little strength in the thumb, would an Axis Lock or an auto (button release) work better? Both those designs don't require putting any digits temporarily in harm's way.

Neither of those designs has the clean simplicity of a Sebenza, of course.

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001

silverwing · Nov 2, 1999

well of course, mr. mattis, i don't really NEED another knife, sebenza or otherwise, now do i? LOL!!

actually, i had the chance to play with a mini axis the other day at a knife store. i loved the lock mechanism, but was disappointed that the blade was so narrow and small in proportion to the handle--it lacked the nice useful geometry of its big sister knife. still, i did mention it to santa...

as for autos, well, i live in California, just somewhat south of you, and i really hate the way orange jumpsuits look on me, so i guess an auto is a bit out of the question. [i have played with a few. the action is pretty strong, a bit forceful on the ones i've tried.]

i'll try to be satisfied with what i have... *sniff* *sniff* but you can't blame a gal for trying to improve her collection with a fine sebenza or two, now can you? not many knives come close to the wonderful feel-in-hand of a CR, and the pretty blade shape, and the way it CUTS.

besides, my SO wants his back.

silverwing

JoHnYKwSt · Nov 3, 1999

Silverwing,

"i had the chance to play with a mini axis the other day at a knife store. i loved the lock mechanism, but was disappointed that the blade was so narrow and small in proportion to the handle"

I agree, that's one of my gripes about my 705.

I doubt CR will make a sebenza with the lock bar tension eased, because this compromises safety. And they have always been finiky about people adjusting the lock bar tension.

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Johnny
[]xxxxxx[]=============>

storyville · Nov 4, 1999

Silverwing -- Good suggestion by ThomM -- the old style Sebenza has a bigger cut-away to access/disengage the locking bar -- might just be the ticket for you. (Although keep in mind that the older model has an ATS-34 blade, not BG-42.) Still kinda risky w/o handling it first; not likely to find one in a retail store. If you can find one over the net, be sure you can return it for a full refund -- that way youll only be out the price of s&h.

(Or maybe CRK can accomodate a special request...?)

Good luck hunting for the right folder --

Glen

Humpty · Nov 4, 1999

I agree with Thom when he says that you should push the liner at an angle. It's almost like you have to push "inward", towards the knife. And try this also... if you have short fingernails, try using the tip of your thumb to push it in. I do this wit tight liner locks and sometimes it dents the nail a bit but it get that knife closed for sure!

Plus I think you're cool. I tried to teach my girlfriend to open a knife and such and she was bored out of her mind!!! Keep on truckin'!

-Humpty

silverwing · Nov 5, 1999

thanks for all the input, everyone. i'll try the different "approach angles" on the lock and see if that helps any. and when the time comes for my own sebbie, i'll see if i can find one of the older models to try...

as for being cool:

thanks! i wish you could have told that to the person who just now walked into my office while i was cutting cardboard with my purple mini socom...acted as though i was Hannibal the Cannibal. sheesh.

Humpty, give your girlfriend time, and plenty of attention, and a couple of nice knives, and you never know what might happen...

again, thanks to all for taking the time to help out!

silverwing

stjames · Nov 5, 1999

If you are interested in an old profile model, I would keep my eyes on the sale forums and online auctions, and contact CRK as well. I have had luck on all three fronts in this regard but you have to act fast.

Good luck.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA

JoHnYKwSt · Nov 5, 1999

I believe Chris currently made a batch of the older profile Sebenzas. If you can't find one anywhere give them a call I'm sure they could make one for you.

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Johnny
[]xxxxxx[]=============>

James Mattis · Nov 6, 1999

I know there's at least one old-profile large Sebenza out there with a BG42 blade, because I got one recently in a trade. No pocket clip.

My thumb didn't notice much difference in ease of closing between old and new, but I suppose I'll have to play with it for scientific purposes.

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001

stjames · Nov 6, 1999

Large Old style with New blade. I wondered who traded a large new style with double lugs to Matt in exchange for that knife. I traded it to Matt after buying it from The 4th, who picked it up at a show.

I wonder who will get it next?

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA

question about lock strength

silverwing

storyville

silverwing

ThomM

James Mattis

silverwing

JoHnYKwSt

storyville

Humpty

silverwing

stjames

Sebenzanista

JoHnYKwSt

James Mattis

stjames

Sebenzanista