question about on-line sellers

[X in 415]

If federal law states that its illegal to ship automatic knives across state lines, (unless you are military,police etc...???) how do on-line sellers stay in business? I think auto's are probably not their main sellers, but some stores are primarily auto only. I cant believe that a few military/police operatives can keep a place in business. Please enlighten me on this subject, or correct anything I stated above should it be wrong. I'm still relatively new to this whole game, and am trying to figure things out as I go. Thanks

 

[glistam]

I asked this same question some time ago and have never received a conclusive answer. I tried asking the sellers themselves and they refused to respond.

However, I have my theories:
1. It's not a violation of the federal law to sell autos to customers in the same state, so long as the state does not have any law regarding this.
2. Some sites say nothing on their website until you actually try to order an auto, and then suddenly spring on you during the process that in order to continue the order, you must call or fax them some sort of authorization.
3. Perhaps it is a calculated risk. It is a federal offense for anyone to open a package in transit, even law enforcement. Therefore the risk of being caught is slim. Enforcement of this law, while it occurs, is rather poor. The appropriate agency would have to go through the effort of ordering from them from out of state and building a case. It seems feds have better things to do lately, so maybe they just don't care (most of the time anyway). We have guns here in abundance after all.

 

[tom19176]

I am a former NYC LEO, and about 20 years ago there were several parts of NYC where the Herion addicts lined up to buy from a dealer in the morning, and in the afternoon the coke and crack dealers had their lines set up. These were in bad areas, and no one cared much, till one day Rudy became mayor. The dealers were arrested on site and now there are no more "drug" lines anywhere in NYC.

The dealers selling these autos are commiting a Federal Felony since they are break the law by sending them to non authorized persons. Many break a second law by using the USPS to send them. Some talked to a lawyer, and decided to have you fill out a form saying you are authorized to buy them, there by pretending to do their do deligence and comply with the law. One day these guys will be dealth with. They are all federal felons ( remember if you commit the crime you are a felon wheter or not you are caught and convicted, people understand this about murders, but not their friendly switchblade dealer). The ads they run ( many stating they will be sent via USPS) will one day be labelled evidence exhibit A.

Syderco paid large fines for their butterfly knife sales a couple years back. There was a South Carolina couple also sentenced for selling switchblades interstate.....Hope that clears things up....

 

[TOM1960]

I am a former NYC LEO, and about 20 years ago there were several parts of NYC where the Herion addicts lined up to buy from a dealer in the morning, and in the afternoon the coke and crack dealers had their lines set up. These were in bad areas, and no one cared much, till one day Rudy became mayor. The dealers were arrested on site and now there are no more "drug" lines anywhere in NYC.

The dealers selling these autos are commiting a Federal Felony since they are break the law by sending them to non authorized persons. Many break a second law by using the USPS to send them. Some talked to a lawyer, and decided to have you fill out a form saying you are authorized to buy them, there by pretending to do their do deligence and comply with the law. One day these guys will be dealth with. They are all federal felons ( remember if you commit the crime you are a felon wheter or not you are caught and convicted, people understand this about murders, but not their friendly switchblade dealer). The ads they run ( many stating they will be sent via USPS) will one day be labelled evidence exhibit A.

Syderco paid large fines for their butterfly knife sales a couple years back. There was a South Carolina couple also sentenced for selling switchblades interstate.....Hope that clears things up....

Some get around this federal law by selling auto-opening knives in kit form. Once the customer assembles the kit, they are/are not in compliance with the law, depending upon the state. Now, whether the knife itself, with the spring and push-button close by, would constitute "constructive" felony possession of a switchblade under various state laws is another matter entirely.

 

[tom19176]

Here is a link to the Federal Law:

http://www.knife-expert.com/fedswitch.txt

Tom, I know Customs ended the Edge company's importation of unassembled knives by banning the import of the parts. It is in the Customs rules, and was shown when the law was almost expanded awhile back to try and include AOs....

 

[TOM1960]

Here is a link to the Federal Law:

http://www.knife-expert.com/fedswitch.txt

Tom, I know Customs ended the Edge company's importation of unassembled knives by banning the import of the parts. It is in the Customs rules, and was shown when the law was almost expanded awhile back to try and include AOs....

Come to think of it, I haven't seen their ads in knife publications for quite some time now. From what I understand, their kit knives were junk. I can only speak for myself, but when the chips are down, I want a blade that I can trust my life with. That is why I stay with quality knives manufactured by reputable companies.

 

[HardUse]

I want the Benchmade Impel but I can't seem to find a store in CA that sells online and most around here don't even stock higher end knives like BMs. If they do they charge an arm and a leg.

 

[tom19176]

I found the Customs law on the parts being banned from import:

12.95 Definitions.
Terms as used in §§ 12.96 through 12.103 of this part are defined as follows:
(a) Switchblade knife. . . . any imported knife, . . . including ‘‘Balisong’’,
‘‘butterfly’’ . . . knives, which has one or more of the following
characteristics or identities:
(1) A blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to
a button or device in the handle of the knife, or any knife with a
blade which opens automatically by operation of inertia, gravity,
or both;
(2) Knives which, by insignificant preliminary preparation, as described
in paragraph (b) of this section, can be altered or converted
so as to open automatically by hand pressure applied to
a button or device in the handle of the knife or by operation of
inertia, gravity, or both;
(3) Unassembled knife kits or knife handles without blades which,
when fully assembled with added blades, springs, or other
parts, are knives which open automatically by hand pressure
applied to a button or device in the handle of the knife or by operation
of inertia, gravity, or both; or
(4) Knives with a detachable blade that is propelled by a springoperated
mechanism, and components thereof.

 

[glistam]

I found the Customs law on the parts being banned from import:

12.95 Definitions.
Terms as used in §§ 12.96 through 12.103 of this part are defined as follows:
(a) Switchblade knife. . . . any imported knife, . . . including ‘‘Balisong’’,
‘‘butterfly’’ . . . knives, which has one or more of the following
characteristics or identities:
(1) A blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to
a button or device in the handle of the knife, or any knife with a
blade which opens automatically by operation of inertia, gravity,
or both;
(2) Knives which, by insignificant preliminary preparation, as described
in paragraph (b) of this section, can be altered or converted
so as to open automatically by hand pressure applied to
a button or device in the handle of the knife or by operation of
inertia, gravity, or both;
(3) Unassembled knife kits or knife handles without blades which,
when fully assembled with added blades, springs, or other
parts, are knives which open automatically by hand pressure
applied to a button or device in the handle of the knife or by operation
of inertia, gravity, or both; or
(4) Knives with a detachable blade that is propelled by a springoperated
mechanism, and components thereof.

Import yes, but what if it's entirely a kit made in the USA?

 

[TOM1960]

Import yes, but what if it's entirely a kit made in the USA?

I was wondering the same thing. Would shipping a kit that was 100% made in U.S.A. violate federal laws? How about possession of the unassembled kit in states that ban auto-opening knives? Would it constitute "constructive possession" of a switchblade? Any case law or successful prosecutions involving such a scenario?

 

[glistam]

I was wondering the same thing. Would shipping a kit that was 100% made in U.S.A. violate federal laws? How about possession of the unassembled kit in states that ban auto-opening knives? Would it constitute "constructive possession" of a switchblade? Any case law or successful prosecutions involving such a scenario?

Never heard of it happening. But like I've saying, sometimes their clearly breaking the law, just that nobody cares enough. People also speed on the road all the time. Doesn't make it legal, doesn't make it right, but it still happens way more than anyone is held accountable.

 

[X in 415]

I want the Benchmade Impel but I can't seem to find a store in CA that sells online and most around here don't even stock higher end knives like BMs. If they do they charge an arm and a leg.

as much as I dislike Fisherman's Wharf, We B Knives has a good selection. They might be able to help

 

[batosai117]

I know in Texas a "switchblade" is a prohibited weapon, not an illegal weapon. The only illegal knife in Texas is one that has a blade over 5 1/2 inches. I don't sell autos due to the whole legal matters, and being a police cadet, I'd rather be safe than ruin my career. I have heard however, that dealers can ship to and from each other and to and from the companies just not by USPS. I don't know how true this is, but I'm not much for auto knives anyways (but that auto commander by kershaw is really nice looking ).

edit to add:

Some information I found in my Penal Code Book for Texas:

"Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.

So switchblades are NOT illegal in Texas as far as I can read, but you can't carry them either.