Question About Pocket Stones

[Trout Hound]

So, here's something I've always wondered about the little pocket size Arkansas stones that are available. When the old timers used these to touch up a knife in the middle of a work day, say like a cowboy whose trapper is getting a little dull after cutting a hundred or so calves, did they bother to use honing oil, or did they just use them dry? If dry, how much sharpening can be done on one of these little stones before it clogs up? Just always wondered that. Thanks!


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[FortyTwoBlades]

Most old timers would just spit on the stone or use some water if they had access to it. You can use such stones dry, but the specific behavior of the particular stone is going to dictate just how much work you can get done with it before it clogs up on ya'.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Arkansas stones are pretty slow as it is. The soft/medium stones will clog pretty fast and essentially stop working as expected, if used dry. If attempting much grinding at all with such stones, it can clog and slow noticeably within a few minutes. You'll also SEE the black stuff accumulating on the surface, and likely feel those dark areas as being noticeably slick as the blade passes over. With a hard black or translucent stone, which are generally used for very light finishing/polishing/burnishing, you can get away with using it dry for a while; but eventually, it'll become more apparent it's not doing much work at all either, as it becomes clogged.

Synthetic oilstones of SiC (especially) or aluminum oxide are more tolerant of dry use for some relatively heavy grinding. SiC will shed it's grit relatively easily, which keeps it working longer, even if it's collecting a good deal of swarf. A SiC stone is also very, very porous, so the swarf tends to settle deeply into them, keeping it out of the way for a while. An aluminum oxide oilstone won't shed grit as quickly, and isn't quite as porous as the SiC stone; so as it collects a lot of swarf, it'll be a little more prone to slowing down, if used dry. BUT, if the stone is maintained relatively clean, it could be used dry for light maintenance/touch-ups pretty regularly, without many issues. I used mine dry for some time, with decent/good results, before settling into a preference for oiling them a bit, especially for heavier work.


David

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Aluminum oxide and silicon carbide are not inherently going to shed grit more or less rapidly than one another, because that has to do with the strength of the bond. The differences between AlOx and SiC are their hardness, shape of the abrasive grains, and the friability of those grains. However, it's the bond strength that governs the rate of shedding, and so it would be easy to make a soft-bond aluminum oxide stone that shed much more rapidly than a hard bond silicon carbide stone. The key factor in this context is how well the stone sheds to avoid glazing when used dry, and so bond strength should be the element given the most scrutiny if you primarily intend to use such a stone dry.

 

[jackknife]

I do almost all my sharpening on pocket size stones, since I don't let my blades get too dull before needing a touch up. I carry a small Eze-Lap model L in my wallet, and with most the plastic handle cut off, fits very well. I also went back to using my old boy scout pocket stone I some years ago, after finding it in a box of stuff in the attic. I use both dry, and just wipe off when done. I've got a small natural Arkansas stone that I've used ry, and just clean it off once in a while when it starts looking really dirty. I use dish soap and a brush and running warm water in the sink, dry it off and it's good to go.

The trend these days is to over complicate everything, and this included knife sharpening. You're right, the cowboys out on the range, were in the same boat as the Civil war soldier, sailor on a square rigger, 1830's mountain man, or Roman legionnaire on the march. They didn't have a ready supply of sharpening gear, cans of oil, and other stuff. Just s smooth stone and maybe some spit. It was enough.

 

[Trout Hound]

Aluminum oxide and silicon carbide are not inherently going to shed grit more or less rapidly than one another, because that has to do with the strength of the bond. The differences between AlOx and SiC are their hardness, shape of the abrasive grains, and the friability of those grains. However, it's the bond strength that governs the rate of shedding, and so it would be easy to make a soft-bond aluminum oxide stone that shed much more rapidly than a hard bond silicon carbide stone. The key factor in this context is how well the stone sheds to avoid glazing when used dry, and so bond strength should be the element given the most scrutiny if you primarily intend to use such a stone dry.

I'm sure this is true. I understood what David meant, however, that, of the stones commonly available on the market, the SiC stones tend to clog less. I know this is true with the Norton Crystolon stones, as compared to the earlier AlOx economy stones. Thanks for the clarification though.

Thanks for your input jackknife. A good perspective.


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[jc57]

I've got a couple of small Arkansas pocket stones I use dry sometimes. They do load up after a while. Being solid pieces of rock, they clean up pretty easy too. Soap/water/Bar Keeper's Friend and some scrubbing.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I'm sure this is true. I understood what David meant, however, that, of the stones commonly available on the market, the SiC stones tend to clog less. I know this is true with the Norton Crystolon stones, as compared to the earlier AlOx economy stones. Thanks for the clarification though.

Thanks for your input jackknife. A good perspective.


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:thumbup:
Echoes my experience too, and my intent as posted. The SiC stones I have from Norton, ACE and Sears all behave as mentioned. It wouldn't surprise me if all were manufactured to the same licensed recipe, or perhaps under contract from one source, they're so similar in behavior. Also as compared to the AlOx stones I have, from ACE and Sears. When comparing SiC vs. AlOx in that entire lot, all of the SiC stones have been less prone to clogging overall, and more tolerant of dry use, or with any wetting agent of choice. The AlOx have been quicker to load up (noticeably, anyway), and have performed better when oiled or otherwise kept wetted during use.

What I was attempting to hint at ( ), in the event one might be looking for a simple, inexpensive and more traditional stone for dry use on the go, is that a pocketable SiC stone (or 'carborundum', by another name) of the type found at the hardware store would be a decent choice, and would be my own preference over an Arkansas stone or a (typically available) hardware store-type stone in aluminum oxide. But, given the availability of water in most places, even the aluminum oxide or Arkansas stones will do. If even water isn't available, then one likely has more pressing concerns, than keeping a blade sharp.


David

 

[bucketstove]

:thumbup:
Echoes my experience too, and my intent as posted. The SiC stones I have from Norton, ACE and Sears all behave as mentioned. It wouldn't surprise me if all were manufactured to the same licensed recipe, or perhaps under contract from one source, they're so similar in behavior. Also as compared to the AlOx stones I have, from ACE and Sears. When comparing SiC vs. AlOx in that entire lot, all of the SiC stones have been less prone to clogging overall, and more tolerant of dry use, or with any wetting agent of choice. The AlOx have been quicker to load up (noticeably, anyway), and have performed better when oiled or otherwise kept wetted during use.

What I was attempting to hint at ( ), in the event one might be looking for a simple, inexpensive and more traditional stone for dry use on the go, is that a pocketable SiC stone (or 'carborundum', by another name) of the type found at the hardware store would be a decent choice, and would be my own preference over an Arkansas stone or a (typically available) hardware store-type stone in aluminum oxide. But, given the availability of water in most places, even the aluminum oxide or Arkansas stones will do. If even water isn't available, then one likely has more pressing concerns, than keeping a blade sharp.


David

Hi
:thumbup:
They've been making these for a hundred years, patents expired, there are no real secrets to making them
Just for the record norton/st.gobain doesn't make them all, the ace hardware stones are made by ali industries / gator finishing