Question about S30V

J

JohnW

Joined
Sep 11, 2000
Messages
144
I was looking a Mnandi sale on eBay, and noticed in the picture of its documentation that the S30V blade was hardened at 58-59 Rc. Is this the plan for Sebenzas as well? With a metal as tough as S30V is reported to be, why harden it lower than the BG42 blades?
 
hmmmmm....interesting... Relatedly, you may want to contact that seller to see why the picture shows the paperwork for a S30V bladed knife and his/her description indicates it is a BG-42 bladed knife...
 
Did anybody ever find out what the RC on the S30V really is?? 57 - 58 seems low......:confused: I would hope this new steel would be higher then that!!
 
I'll shoot it up this time: S30V is capable of being treated 60-61 RC. IF 57-58 RC is going to be the official benchmark, I too, would like to know the rationale.
Chris? Anne? Please? An explanation would be nice.
Thanks!
Barry H
 
I e-mailed CRK in order to find out more about this new steel and they did tell me that it was going to be heat treated at 58-59 RC. Thats really all they told me, they said in order for me to find out more info on this to go to the press release on their site. I too would like more info on the reasons behind this.
 
I was really hoping for 62-63 Rc, after working
with the metal longer (it doesn't surprise me
that the early knives might be different from
the ultimate intention). I really love the
hardness of the BG42 blades... But Chris knows
his stuff, so I'm ready to be re-educated.
Until then, at least I'll have a secondary
market to fall back on for quite a long while.
 
I emailed CRK and asked them about the hardness of S30V. I said that every other S30V blade I have seen from other makers have been hardened to 60-61 RC, and why CRK's was 58-59RC. They told me it was because Chris liked to add a little more toughness to the blade. This didn't really answer me question because S30V is supposed to be tougher than BG42, and so should be at least as hard (Their BG42 being 60-61RC). I didn't ask anymore questions because I did not want to be rude but this is really troubling me.

I am just hoping that they are not doing what Spyderco did with 440V. As much respect as I have for Spyderco, them lowering their 440V from 58RC to ~55-56RC was to me a mistake. Although their tests on their CATRA machine show otherwise, it seems from most of the posts I've read that a lot of people were not very impressed or happy with Spyderco's 440V. I can only imagine they lowered the hardness because it made it easier to manufacture or something similar because the custom knife makers had it at 58RC and those did fine.

I may be wrong and I hope I am. Maybe CRK does know what they are doing, but seeing how everyone else is doing the opposite, this seems unlikely. Hopefully CRK can give us an answer.
 
I don't think that CRK needs to answer. Chris is acutely aware of every detail that he puts in his knives. If he wants to harden it at 58, I'm sure he has a more than adequate reason. Let's wait and see some blades come out in SV30 and see how the customers like it. The proof is in the pudding. I don't think that customers will be dissapointed. Give Chris the benefit of the doubt.
 
I must say, admitting I don't have many details, that JoHnYKwSt's thinking mirrors my own.

I wonder if S30V is simply too much harder to machine in whatever steps they do post-heat-treat that they have to keep the hardness down? Maybe even the pre-heat-treat stuff is just a bear to machine and/or grind and/or finish. I dunno.

The drop in hardness sounds a bit counterproductive to me, as I never heard any complaints about BG-42 being brittle at Rc60 from Reeve's customers, but I'll hold judgement for a while ... or try to.

On 440V at Spyderco... from what I recall, it was customer complaints about 440V's brittleness in the field that caused Spyderco to drop the hardness. Numerous custom makers said they had no brittleness problems at Rc58 with 440V, but heat treating in big batches etc... could certainly have limited what Spyderco could do with 440V. I think the stuff is pretty much obsolete now with both 420V and S30V around.
 
Just thinking out loud, but D2 and S30V have almost the same amount of carbon. D2 hardened to 60-61 requires lots of belts to grind blades. I once asked my CRK dealer to special order a D2 Sebenza for me--CRK declined. Wonder if S30V is similarily difficult to grind at 60-61? What are most of the custom makers hardening their S30V to?
Barry H.
 
About Spyderco's drop in hardness for 440V, I do not remember the complaints about it being brittle but my impression that I get from the whole thing is; people thought Spyderco's 440V at the lower hardness was mediocre--there were no real "I love Spyderco's 440V" posts, from what I remember.

Every other S30V blade I've read about was hardened to 60 at least. This included Phil Wilson, who does a lot of testing on his blades, and Paul Bos, who does heat treating for a lot of custom makers.
 
Originally posted by Barry H
Just thinking out loud, but D2 and S30V have almost the same amount of carbon. D2 hardened to 60-61 requires lots of belts to grind blades. I once asked my CRK dealer to special order a D2 Sebenza for me--CRK declined. Wonder if S30V is similarily difficult to grind at 60-61? What are most of the custom makers hardening their S30V to?
Barry H.
Click to expand...

Some makers do primary grinding after heat treat, but the big majority grind and do the bulk of their machining before heat treat... it's just a lot softer metal and much quicker and easier and cheaper.

I think one reason for grinding after heat treat is that you can keep the material from warping as much if you have uniform thickness stuff (i.e. before primary hollow grinds go on but w/ material already in the shape of a knife).

How does CRK do it? I dunno. I'd sure think they would surface grind, hollow grind, and do drilling and machining before heat treat. Final grind of the hollows and final finish would be after heat treat... guesses.

You bet S30V will be a bear to grind at Rc60-61, just like S90V, probably worse than BG-42.

I just took delivery of a 3.6" hunter of S30V at Rc60-61. It's a users choice kinda thing to some degree. The tempering cycle can be used to bring a just-quenched and cryo'd knife down to whatever hardness you want, within some limits and acknowledging some steels have secondary hardening characteristics you have to dance around.
 
Mr. Angerer, your experiences with these steels parallel my own, yet I haven't been able to put it into words as of yet. You've done a great job at it. I just got done reading another thread you contributed in regarding 420V vs D2, and would agree with you on the fixed/folder choices as well, as well as heat treatment. Thanks for educating us.

Good input all the way around. It's been a while since I've learned something around the forums. Beats the Hell outta that shavin' nuts thread too.

I'm anxious to see how my small Seb. with the new steel works out. I've ordered double thumbstuds too, and can't wait for that addition. I'm by no means ambidextrous, but it's just good sense to put double studs on a one-handed knife.

:)

Professor.
 
I have followed this thread with great interest as I have placed an order for a large Classic woody that will have the new blade steel. I, like you Professor, requested the double thumbstuds and can't wait to see how they look:D
Knowing as little as I do about steel I am hesitant to make much of a statement, but I will anyway;) I hope that maybe Chris Reeve knows something we don't about the hardness for S30V and am sure he has a good reason for going this route. He sure hasn't let his customers down yet and if switching from an already great steel such as BG-42...........well, he MUST know something!
I think Scott Dog has a good idea when he says "the proof is in the pudding" I too think we will ultimately be satisfied with the "new sebenza". After all it still comes from CRK, and we KNOW that means quality!:) :D :cool:
 
I also wouldn't mind hearing the reason for such a low RC, if in fact it is so low. My guess is also it has to do more with manufacturing than anything else. Sure would be nice if CRK would inlighten us.
 
I was very enthusiatic about S30V. Now I am not so sure though. It'd be very nice of CRK to step in and elaborate.
As I recall the average loss of wear resistance(not edge holding) per 1 HRC was 20%. And that was about BG-42. I may be wrong though. Anyway, if the same applies S30V then I'm not so sure if it will perform better overall, with HRC lower by 2-3 points.
Anyway, Chris would be the one to clarify all this.
 
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