Question about sharpening axes

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newsasquatch

Joined
May 4, 2013
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I am now waiting for my velvicut boys axe. I bought it from omahaknife, but they're yet to recieve the axes so I've got a while to wait till my axes get here. Omaha knife is actually going to sharpen my axe for me (as I am a noob and don't know how yet). The thing is, I've seen a lot of great sharpening jobs on this forum and notice that a lot of the forumites on here sharpen theyre convexed edge on their axe quite wide--like maybe an inch or more. The thing is, I've seen from different posts on here, that the council tool axes that come from Omaha Knife come with a convex edge that is less wide than an axe from Gransfors bruks or from a lot of the sharpening jobs I've seen on here. I've also noticed that it doesn't appear that these velvicuts edges are arc-shaped like a lot of axes I've seen. Is a wider convex edge better for an axe? Should I request for a larger edge?
 
On a newer axe, the head should be shaped well enough that you won't need to widen the bevel as much as you often see on restored axes. I'm pretty sure those super wide bevels result from trying to thin out an old slightly squashed fat bevel.
 
I purchased my Velvicut from my local loggers supply and it was arm-hair-shaving sharp right out of the box. I've never purchased from Omaha Knife but I'd guess that whatever they do to put a final polish on the edge doesn't necessitate removing much material. A quality axe that comes from the manufacturer with a good bevel won't need much work on your part to keep it sharp providing you don't abuse it.

Many of the grinds you'll see 'round here were done on old, dull, and sometimes a little weathered heads. A good bit of filework was needed to get a satisfactory edge on a well used blade. This makes the shiny new "sharpened" steel stand out. Most of what you'd find in a hardware store would also need a good bit of grinding to get a satisfactory bevel. The Gransfors bruks axes and their ilk show a very visible wide shiny bevel by virtue of leaving the rest of the head unpolished.
 
Heres an awesome video for new Axe owners:

[video=youtube;Xz3rs-eaN3E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz3rs-eaN3E[/video]
 
Thanks for all the info guys, They're currently out of stock and waiting for the shipment to come in right now so I'm just waiting around obsessing a bit. I probably could have gotten it faster from council but they don't do the extra sharpening and I have read reviews that said they weren't as sharp as they'd have liked. Omaha knife also ships for 5 bucks and I was able to use a coupon code. Out the door I only paid 130 even!
 
If you stick to using hand methods such as a traditional Nicholson axe file, (followed by a stone if you're really into it), you will not be able to entertain serious re-profiling nor remove too much stock and the blade will easily last you a couple of lifetimes. Any sort of novice power wheel application is far too easy and therefore far too fast. I prize a razor edge on a belt knife, kitchen knife and on the small blade of my SAK but my criterion for a smooth-cutting limbing and chopping axe have always been considerably lower and if this tool is also going to double as a splitter then you're really not going to want to maintain a surgeon's edge.
Another thing to remember is that the keener the edge the faster it becomes dull.
 
Best to think about shaping rather than sharpening. There is much more to an axe than just the face.

An axe can have a razor sharp edge, but will be nigh-on useless unless the rest of the axe is shaped and hung correctly.

regards...Frank.
 
Frank-New Zealand said:
Best to think about shaping rather than sharpening. There is much more to an axe than just the face.

An axe can have a razor sharp edge, but will be nigh-on useless unless the rest of the axe is shaped and hung correctly.

regards...Frank.
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Nicely stated. I never could understand how the other 2 dozen young men I went off into the northern Ontario forest with, 45 years ago, on a 2 month long land-clearing mission could tolerate dull axes, but they cheerfully did. I demonstrated over and over how much more useful a carefully-maintained axe was (using only a file) but only ever wound up getting buried in requests to sharpen theirs. And an axe that has not been sharpened in a long time and/or has routinely been swung into the ground requires a considerable amount of attention more than I was ever prepared to devote.
 
I have a DMT diafold fine/coarse but I'm still getting the hang of using it. So a nicholson axe file is all one needs?
 
Frank-New Zealand said:
Best to think about shaping rather than sharpening. There is much more to an axe than just the face.

An axe can have a razor sharp edge, but will be nigh-on useless unless the rest of the axe is shaped and hung correctly.

regards...Frank.
Click to expand...
This is a Council tool velvicut boys axe, I hope its shaped and hung right. I'm just hoping to have a very well-established bevel to "trace" over. I think Omaha knife has it handled. I really need to learn how to do it myself though.
 
In my opinion, for felling axes, you can get by quite well with just a file. The honing that can be done on stones is best used for fine woodworking tools, or tools that need to make very particular cuts. Carpenter's axe, carving tools, broad axes, mortise axes, etc.

Alternately, a coarse axe stone can be very good and efficient at fixing small spots on an axe blade. The uses for the file and stone can certainly overlap.
 
newsasquatch said:
So a nicholson axe file is all one needs?
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No. Nicholson doesn't make quality files any more. Their stuff is import garbage now. You might be able to get through one medium quality axe with one of their new files. Find your local machine shop supplier and buy a file there. Pferd files aren't bad but there will be plenty of other quality files at this type of store. Talk to the sales rep and tell him you want to file high carbon steel. Don't forget to buy a handle for it, too. And cut a guard for it out of some old garden hose before you put the handle on it. And you also need a file card to clean it with. Then you need some clamps or a vise to hold the axe while you're filing it. And you still need an axe stone, too.

Anything less than these steps will be an exercise in frustration.
 
Alright, thanks for the tips, I saw that nicholson files are under ten bucks, but I don't mind paying more for something that will last longer so I'll look into a machine shop in my area (I live in Los Angeles county). So I assume that the file is used first, then the axe stone? I wonder if--for now--I could get away with just an axe stone or a file just for maintenance.
 
I have a somewhat different approach. I primarily just use a file to get the correct profile. After that I don't want to use a file unless I need to get a chip out. Filing creates a fine serrated edge which is more apt to get snagged and chip out. After a head is profiled, I primarily use a sharpening puck and then swipe a butcher's steel along the edge. I could be happy in the field with just a puck or even a pocket diamond strip. In my experience the polished edge will hold longer than the serrated edge from a file. It only takes a few minutes with a puck to restore a razor edge on a properly profiled and polished bit. Also, if you keep the bit dressed occasionally with the stone to keep removing the start of any edge roll, it will be less likely to chip out.
 
I have never heard anyone complain about an axe being too sharp. On the other hand the world is rife with complaints about dull ones.
 
Yeah I'll echo what everyone said about profile being pretty key. Assuming a reasonably honed final edge, an axe's efficiency is all about how far it can penetrate into the wood before resistance stops it. The two biggest factors in that are 1) the profile, or how far back on the bit it stays relatively thin and 2) how much force the head has behind it (head weight, length of handle and strength of swing all play a part here). Of course if the bit is thin too far back it's going to have issues with binding in the wood, so that's something that has to be factored in.

The gauge on the 29th page of the "An Ax to Grind" Manual is a pretty ideal measure of what the first inch of your bit should be like. Print off the page at 100% scale, tape the page to a piece of rigid cardboard and cut out the pattern with a box knife. That should give you a pretty good starting point to work from. The banana grinds you see on some axes around here are generally done to thin out the cheeks further back on the bit. These areas might be too fat because the head is worn down or it's just fatter because it's a heavier model head. This process is not really necessary if the profile is already thin enough to your liking - and with a brand new velvicut axe, I'd assume it probably will be.
 
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newsasquatch said:
I wonder if--for now--I could get away with just an axe stone or a file just for maintenance.
Click to expand...

Yes, if you're getting an axe with a decent profile then you can get by fine with just a stone. In fact, all sharpening can be done with a stone. It's just that re-profiling is much faster with a file or skillfully used power tool.

killa_concept said:
Y.....an axe's efficiency is all about how far it can penetrate into the wood before resistance stops it. The two biggest factors in that are 1) the profile, or how far back on the bit it stays relatively thin and 2) how much force the head has behind it (head weight, length of handle and strength of swing all play a part here). Of course if the bit is thin too far back it's going to have issues with binding in the wood, so that's something that has to be factored in.
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Well stated. To expand on your final point, the cheeks needs to thick enough to pop out the chip. If the chip doesn't pop out then the axe can't penetrate deeper. Thinness and thickness have to be balanced. Thinness and toughness need to be balanced. In getting this right there's no substitute for experience in your type of cutting in your type of wood. You will learn how thick your edge needs to be to remain durable. And you'll learn how efficiently it cuts at different thicknesses. Even the most experienced forester or competitive axe man will be constantly contemplating the different parameters.
 
Square_peg said:
Well stated. To expand on your final point, the cheeks needs to thick enough to pop out the chip. If the chip doesn't pop out then the axe can't penetrate deeper. Thinness and thickness have to be balanced. Thinness and toughness need to be balanced. In getting this right there's no substitute for experience in your type of cutting in your type of wood. You will learn how thick your edge needs to be to remain durable. And you'll learn how efficiently it cuts at different thicknesses. Even the most experienced forester or competitive axe man will be constantly contemplating the different parameters.
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Funny that you mention this as I was just looking over some old photos. I think I'll pull some together and make a new thread as to not derail this one. I'll toss a link here though when I'm done.
 
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