question about the 21

Grandmaster · Dec 12, 2015

As you may notice, I have posted a lot lately, that's because I went on a shopping spree, anyway, I can take apart and clean my 21, everything is centered and I know its assembled correctly, the problem I have is that I cant tighten the pivot screw or the blade wont come out, it just takes a lot of strength, I have to tighten it, and loosen it up about half a turn, is this normal? I thought the 21 is supposed to have the pivot screw tighten all the way, mine just doesn't deploy when I do this, any suggestions?

willard0341 · Dec 12, 2015

Thin out the washers or just work the blade back and forth 100k times.

When I do the latter I stop before engaging the lock

Enjoy yourself,

You'll have no concern about it opening in your pocket

unit · Dec 12, 2015

Uhhhh. Let me get this straight. After you took it apart, it is considerably harder to open the blade unless you loosen the pivot a HALF turn? If this is correct, NO do not attempt to thin the washers or work it back and forth 100k times. That is bad advice.

If it truly requires "strength" to open the blade, something is wrong. I would guess a washer has been damaged (either deformed or pinched).

Thinning the washers or actuating the blade numerous times can make the difference between the knife blade swinging with very little effort and zero effort, but it will not "fix" a knife that is difficult to open...it should not be difficult to open. If it is difficult to open, and loosening the pivot changes things, we can probably rule out a strong detent as the problem.

If you over greased it, the blade may not swing as "freely" as before, but I can not imagine a person saying this situation 'takes a lot of strength" to overcome.

I think something is wrong, and needs to be positively identified and fixed before you start attempting to induce wear on the parts artificially.

Ccc · Dec 12, 2015

This has happened to me a few times, and it is usually because the washers and bushing aren't lined up correctly. If you are experiencing the same thing I was, it helps to take it apart and try putting it together again to get everything to line up correctly. Like unit said, you shouldn't have to force anything, and doing so could mess up the washers.

bedgoo · Dec 12, 2015

Back out the male pivot. Spin the female pivot a little bit. Try to tighten the pivot again, this has worked for me in the past.

I have found that assembling a 21 is best when you connect the two handle frames together first. Then slide in the blade with bushing and washers into place. Then inserting the pivots.

Gizler00 · Dec 12, 2015

I have to disagree a little bit. Two of the 3 Seb21's I have owned would almost lock tight when the pivot was tightened down all the way.

One of them, I took the washers to some 3000 grit then my strop. And it opened as it should. Very smooth and fluid with the pivot all the way tight.

I have seen many others on here that have had the same experience with their new Seb. Some take the route I did and some let it break in with the pivot slightly loose.

I tried something different with my new Insingo. I went with the method of not cranking it down and just using it. And now after a solid month of use, the blade drops free when the lockbar is pushed over.

There is nothing wrong with someone that touches up the washers a little. Like I said two of mine were not perfect out of the box. I am not alone in this also

unit said:
Uhhhh. Let me get this straight. After you took it apart, it is considerably harder to open the blade unless you loosen the pivot a HALF turn? If this is correct, NO do not attempt to thin the washers or work it back and forth 100k times. That is bad advice.

If it truly requires "strength" to open the blade, something is wrong. I would guess a washer has been damaged (either deformed or pinched).

Thinning the washers or actuating the blade numerous times can make the difference between the knife blade swinging with very little effort and zero effort, but it will not "fix" a knife that is difficult to open...it should not be difficult to open. If it is difficult to open, and loosening the pivot changes things, we can probably rule out a strong detent as the problem.

If you over greased it, the blade may not swing as "freely" as before, but I can not imagine a person saying this situation 'takes a lot of strength" to overcome.

I think something is wrong, and needs to be positively identified and fixed before you start attempting to induce wear on the parts artificially.

Gizler00 · Dec 12, 2015

Excellent advice here. This is how I assemble mine. Handles together first then insert the blade.

bedgoo said:
Back out the male pivot. Spin the female pivot a little bit. Try to tighten the pivot again, this has worked for me in the past.

I have found that assembling a 21 is best when you connect the two handle frames together first. Then slide in the blade with bushing and washers into place. Then inserting the pivots.

Ajack60 · Dec 12, 2015

I've always used the sandwich method to put the 21 back together.
The pivot bushing and the stop pin are similar in size, are you sure you don't have them mixed up? I've had one come to me that way. Luckily, the stop pin had the grooves on it to identify it.

sutherland · Dec 12, 2015

No offense to the OP, but these are the threads I point too when people say the 21 is "easier" to take down than the 25 and Umnumzaan.

First off, this notion of "tightening down all the way with a bushing pivot" is false. The bushing is slightly wider than the blade tang, but should be flush with the washers on either side. If you crank down on the pivot, it's certainly possible to pinch the pivot assembly and seize up the action (similar to an adjustable pivot). Your pivot on the 21 should be finger tight, not cranked down.

Second, it is very easy to pinch the washer. A good way to prevent this is in the reassembly of the knife. Instead of sliding the blade/pivot bushing into the assembled frame, try the easier method of:
- inserting the female pivot screw into the lock side scale (lay flat)
- place the bushing on the screw, so it's flush with the scale
- insert the lock side washer
- followed by the blade
- and the show side washer

This stacked assembly can prevent your washer(s) from being pinched

Third, make sure the washers are not flipped. Note, I am not taking about Show Side is on Lock Side and vice-versa, I mean the actual washer is flipped over. This is a very very common mistake. As you open and close the knife, the washer will begin to wear as it runs along the blade. If that washer were to be flipped, you are essentially pressing "reset" and creating resistance because you are exposing the "non-broken in" side to the blade.

Mhgarcia114 · Dec 12, 2015

The washers are not supposed to spin! They are held in place and the blade is able to swing on the smooth surface created by the two washers. No issue with stropping/polishing the washers on a new seb.

Corytr · Dec 13, 2015

The washers are absolutely not supposed to spin. The scales should see no wear from the washers rotating.

As Unit said, too much grease will make it stiff. Only use a thin film. Kidcongo suggested using a mini artists paint brush to apply the grease to the tang only. It works great and will help limit excess grease.

Another trick that I am admittedly surprised we don't hear much about is to put sideways pressure on the blade and exercise it open and closed a few times. It works!

jumpstat · Dec 14, 2015

The washers are not straight level. Probably pinched during assembly. As the geometry of the sebenza is very tight, if put together correctly, it should work without binding..

All the best OP.

unit · Dec 14, 2015

Honestly, if I believed that it was necessary to use any sort of sandpaper or other grinding media to make the pivot work properly on a CRK, I would send it back for return or repair.

These things are right from the maker...and if they are not, let the maker make it right. You paid WAY too much for a knife to not be correct.

What a sad day when CRK QC drops to the point that people need to work on their pivots to make them work properly (and to make my point clear...I do NOT believe that day had arrived). Yes, I believe accidents can happen, but they are the exception and not the rule as some allude. You sould NOT need to sand washers on a CRK as a standard procedure.

uofaengr · Dec 14, 2015

1. The sky is not falling. CRK QC is fine.

2. There's no need to "crank" on the pivot anyway. Turning the Allen wrench until it barely flexes a little is good enough for all the screws. I've yet to have one back out doing this.

3. Sebenzas can vary out of the box, and have never felt two brand new that were exactly the same. My large felt like the washers were highly polished, nearly indescribable. My small clip was tighter and I voluntarily polished the washers just a hair for a more satisfactory action (to me). My small Insingo is in between and has a free dropping blade out of the box but doesn't have the freeness of my large (which I think is out of the ordinary anyway).

4. Make sure you haven't pinched a washer. Stuff's tight in there.

willard0341 · Dec 14, 2015

unit said:
Honestly, if I believed that it was necessary to use any sort of sandpaper or other grinding media to make the pivot work properly on a CRK, I would send it back for return or repair.

These things are right from the maker...and if they are not, let the maker make it right. You paid WAY too much for a knife to not be correct.

What a sad day when CRK QC drops to the point that people need to work on their pivots to make them work properly (and to make my point clear...I do NOT believe that day had arrived). Yes, I believe accidents can happen, but they are the exception and not the rule as some allude. You sould NOT need to sand washers on a CRK as a standard procedure.

Before you go making snarky juvenile comments "ummmm bad idea" you should think a little bit before you type. I'm pretty sure your an adult, so act like one.

Gizler00 · Dec 14, 2015

I agree, we do pay a premium for higher quality. But I can assure you that 2 out of the 3 sebs I owned and currently own, would not freely open with the pivot tightened down.

My Insingo was like this right out of the box. Never taken apart by me. I decided to try and let it break in with the pivot slightly loose. And after a month it's better.

I am not the online that has experienced this with CRK. There are many others that have had the same experience. I'm not saying it's a flaw, I'm not saying they are junk, I'm simply saying that some of these need work right out of the box to be Perfect. It's ok.....many other knives are the same way.

I don't like it, but it's not going to stop me from buying them.

unit said:
Honestly, if I believed that it was necessary to use any sort of sandpaper or other grinding media to make the pivot work properly on a CRK, I would send it back for return or repair.

These things are right from the maker...and if they are not, let the maker make it right. You paid WAY too much for a knife to not be correct.

What a sad day when CRK QC drops to the point that people need to work on their pivots to make them work properly (and to make my point clear...I do NOT believe that day had arrived). Yes, I believe accidents can happen, but they are the exception and not the rule as some allude. You sould NOT need to sand washers on a CRK as a standard procedure.

unit · Dec 14, 2015

willard0341 said:
Before you go making snarky juvenile comments "ummmm bad idea" you should think a little bit before you type. I'm pretty sure your an adult, so act like one.

Good thing that is not what I said then...

I thought quite a bit before I offered my insights regarding the reported condition, and recommended doing no harm.

Thanks for your contribution.

Grandmaster · Dec 14, 2015

I don't mind polishing the washers, Ive done it and it has made a difference, not super smooth but I can deploy one handed, I don't know if I would returned the knife just because it wont easily deploy, I've purchased $5000 custom race guns (IPSC, USPSA), and I always end up changing springs, mag followers to make it work 100%, I guess it comes with the territory when you buy fine pieces

Gizler00 · Dec 14, 2015

Great way to look at this. I find myself having to tinker with the finest of products I purchase. Sometimes they have little kinks that need smoothed out.

Yes it does hurt sometimes when you have to polish the washer on a CRK, but like I said.......its just proof that they are a normal company run by humans. Sometimes stuff will get through that's not perfect.

Grandmaster said:
I don't mind polishing the washers, Ive done it and it has made a difference, not super smooth but I can deploy one handed, I don't know if I would returned the knife just because it wont easily deploy, I've purchased $5000 custom race guns (IPSC, USPSA), and I always end up changing springs, mag followers to make it work 100%, I guess it comes with the territory when you buy fine pieces

unit · Dec 14, 2015

Grandmaster said:
I don't mind polishing the washers, Ive done it and it has made a difference, not super smooth but I can deploy one handed, I don't know if I would returned the knife just because it wont easily deploy, I've purchased $5000 custom race guns (IPSC, USPSA), and I always end up changing springs, mag followers to make it work 100%, I guess it comes with the territory when you buy fine pieces

It sounds like you have a fair bit of experience with precision machines. From your initial post (particularly the statement regarding that is required "a lot of strength") it seemed that something was wrong such as a pinched or damaged washer.

Polishing washers is the difference between the blade swinging freely when the lock bar is held off the blade and needing to use perhaps 30 grams of force to make it move. The detent on newer models is pretty firm meaning that you need to apply several pounds of force to overcome the initial detent, but once the detent is disengaged the blade swings as described above. I am sure you understand that polishing washers has no affect on detent.

I am not really sure what the issue is with your knife, I would love to be able to help, but I am a not sure what to suggest at this point. CRK is not known for poor QC and my statements above were intended to reflect that, and to dissuade the seemingly exuberant suggestions by many to jump to modification of a knife that should not require it. Unlike race guns, it is not common place for people to modify and improve upon a Sebenza. I suspect that if you ask the people at CRK they will tell you that more harm than good is done by people trying to fix something that is not broken.