Question about where to hit Damascus steel...

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DaQo'tah Forge

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THE SITUATION : Okay,,,,in the morning I plan my 3rd attempt at making Damascus steel. I'm using about 30 sections of banding strap that is cut to about 6 inches long, This is spaced with about 20 sections of Bandsaw blade that is also cut to 6 inches long each.

I have welded one end, wired up the bundle with tie wire,,,and welded a re bar rod to the welded end.

Now I know how to use the 20 mule team flux, but I have a question about the smacking with the hammer part.

QUESTION: when I begin to set the weld , what end do I hit?....I'm not sure if I'm to start hitting the bundle of steel up by the welded bar,,,or should i first hit the steel out near the end and work my way back to the bar?

THE PROBLEM:,,,Last weelend I tried hitting the heated steel out on the un-welded end, but this sorta bunched up the layers of steel as I worked my way back toward the re bar handle.

Do you experts start hitting the bundle of steel near the welded-on re bar handle?
 
sounds like you've got to many layers to start with, but that aside the way I do it is if I've welded a bar to hold on to I start at the end that is welded to the bar and work my way down the center towards the end being carful not to maker the layers get out of whack. Next heat I flip the billet over and work from the center to the sides to the end from the welded end. I have stuck a billet in a vise at heat and used it to weld the billet with nothing more than me twisting the vise handle by hand.
 
I have made a few banding and band saw billets. I think there is many ways.
Some wire some weld.

I actually put a weld across the layes on each end and one or two on one side of the stack. At 1/3's or half depending on the length.

What you are trying to do at first is get all the flux out from between the layers and have them weld. I don't use a belt the crap out of it force but a good firm welding force. You just have to learn what that is as you go.

Systematic and overlaping blows to force the flux out. When I have it welded I go over with a second round of systematic and overlapping blows to ensure it has fully welded. Then when I am happy it has set I get a bit more force to start moving the metal.

You will also fine if you make the stack too tall compared to wide it will go all over the place at the ends and become hard to keep square.

My advice if you are not familiar with thin layer welding make up a small billet
first.

The other tip is if your billet is too wide and thin if you hit the side too much in one heat you can cause the layer to de laminate. I can not give you a rule to follow just be aware of it and watch the steel to see how it is going.

I also like to use 2 layers of band saw to one layer of steel twice as thick. When you etch you get a gt drag stripe ie double stripes instead of single on the bandsaw layer. I believe it it the area of the 2 surfaces of the bandsaw welds that cause the effect.
 
Try a smaller (less layers) billet to start.Put the stack in a vice and weld one side with weld beads every 2 inches.Weld both ends.Turn over and weld the other side the same way.Then add the work handle bar.On the welding blows with the hammer you are only setting the metal together.Don't whack the crap out of it.That comes later when you are reducing the billet.Just start at one end (I start at the end opposite the handle) and work your way up the billet about 1 to 2 inches at a time.Reforge this several times until it has a nice solid sound when you hit it.If the sound is dull - the layers aren't welded! Work all sides of the billet untill it is a solid bar with no trace of separate layers.Cool off and grind the sides before drawing out and folding.
 
I have printed out all answers so far....and now I am off to the shop with answers in hand to see what happens,,,,

The problems I have had are:
I used way too much 20 mule team flux, I used to cover all sides of the bundle and I had flux all over the forge...I really have made a mess of the insides ( Be ready for my questions soon about fixing that)

I had welded both ends of the billet the first time and started wacking the thing in the middle only to see the steel bunch up and split all over the place at both ends....What a mess'''

I next welded only one end on the 2nd attempt, but this time due to haveing an unlimited amound of banding straps to use , I made a bundle of straps about 3 &1/2 inches thick,,,,darn near didnt fit in my forge!

tried hitting from the open (unwelded) end only and working my way back, the steel welded good at that end, but still bunched up like mad at the rebar end,,,
So I cut the rebar off and kept forging, again useing way too much flux. the end layers would not stick to eachother no matter what I tried, I fluxed, and fluxed ...the layers would only slip off to the side...to fix that I tried to turn the bundle on it's side and smack everything back into line,,,only to watch the whole thing come appart and .....(back to making a mess part again)

This time,,,I have clean and slightly sanded each section of bandsaw blade and strapping. I have the tied up billet that is only about 1 inch thick,,,welded only at one end,,,

I will try this time to hit more near the rebar end at first,,,and not use too much force at first...also, I might try the vice idea,,,I have a good vice and it might work....
......

well....Im going to check for any new posts, and then head off to my shop for a while,,,,,I will let you know what problem come up this time.....
 
Keep trying,and make sure it is at welding temperature.Good luck!
Bill Moran told me,once,"That I only found one way that would work to make damascus.Unfortunatly I first found about 100 ways that didn't work."
 
one other tip is don't try to hit harder to make it weld .

Temperature is the key to the weld. A mistake myself and other i know made was in the early attempts you start to get a bit of a weld happening and you don't notice the steel is getting cold so you hit it and it starts to seperate or go sideways. So you hit it harder and it comes apart more.

Until you get it sorted out in you own mind through experince what is the right colour of the steel to be welding at just do a small section at a time and re heat.

The more times you re heat the more steel you loose in fire scale so be aware that you do this untill you get a better idea of what the right temperature is then you will be able to extend your working time.

Also is you heat your anvil first by working some other blades of projects you will have a better result. When the anvil is cold it will suck the heat out of you billet much more quickly. That has a nasty habit of cooling the outside few lawers of banding strap and they don't want to weld to the rest.

By now you may have already worked it out so good luck.
 
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