Question for ABS tests, and qualifying.

C

CodyOebel

Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
85
I live in San Antonio, Texas.

I love making knives, and have been investing in tools, and slowly building what I need to make things easier for me forging. I like to forge, and dont like touching grinders and belt sanders etc... I like just using a hammer alone, but since a few customer requests came in for smoothed polished looking blades I had to gear up for it.

Anyhow.. I personally subject my knives to a great deal of abuse as many of you here already know from the video's I have taken of what I put my knives through, but it's not good enough. I want to subject them to ABS tests. I just dont know where I can go to meet with people like this.

I also like throwing knives, and the nearest association for that is 3 hours away. So I'm hoping all these distance issues is not going to keep me from being able to qualify my work some day.

My phone number is 210-429-6063. I am very interested in following through on this, but need some help from you folks.

Thank you,

Cody Oebel

WWW.OebelKnives.COM
 
Join the ABS. You don't have to be a member to attend its functions. But if you ever aspire to actually take the journeyman & masters tests, you'll need to have been a member for a requisit period of time. Hob-nob with other makers. Take classes and attend seminars. Go to hammer-ins. You'll be amazed what you'll learn.

Testing our knives is very important but don't waste time re-inventing the wheel. The informatiion is there for the asking. Temperatures and quench mediums are well known and proven. A 1:4 ratio of panther pee & snake oil won't cut it :). I'm just saying that the ABS is an educational organization with a goal to develop and promote the hand-forged knife. The ABS is there for you.

At the ABS website you can get the criteria for both journeyman and masters tests. Everyone who formally takes the test (hopefully) has already taken the test on their own many times. There may have been exceptions, but if they have never cut a rope or bent their knives in their own shop, you can bet that they'll probably fail miserably.

Don't look at me as judgemental but if you are going to sell knives, you're going to have to strive for superlative fit & finish. People are already asking you for that. They have to look good. They have to catch the customer's eye. Otherwise he'll never pick it up for a closer look. Knives are art. When's the last time any of us went to a crescent wrench show? Or tested to be master level screwdriver maker? Do drill press shows exist where exclusive hand-made, gold-inlayed, engraved drill presses sell to wealthy collectors? I'm being facetious but the fact is, knives are more than that. They are much more than "just tools."

I'm long-winded but I think you are wanting to get off in the right direction, and you certainly have a love for what you're doing. Just my advice for what it's worth. Maybe answered a question or two.

Cheers,

TV


Terry Vandeventer
ABS MS
 
Great advice Terry! :)

Cody- Man, you really need to secure your tools! Trying to hold your anvil in place with your feet and things like that, is killing you on efficiency. If your tools were at a comfortable working height and securely held in place, you'd get a lot more done with a lot less overall effort.

Add that with getting out to some other makers and/or the school to learn some new ideas/techniques, and you'd really make progress by leaps and bounds. For instance, and this is meant as constructive criticism, not to be rude--- there's a point where you say something about a few hours of forging in one of those videos. If you had your tools set up better and some more efficient techniques, you'd have that much forging done in 15 minutes. Again, that's not to be mean, just an observation--- and that stuff REALLY MATTERS if you are going to try to do this stuff full time. Trust me! ;) :)

As far as distance--- Hey, you're already in the south! :) If I can make it work from way up in Washington---then there's no doubt you'll be able to access folks down south :)

Best of luck Cody :)
 
Terry and Nick are giving you solid advice.

My addition....Distance is no object. IF you plan on doing this for a living, you better plan on spending a LOT of time on the road, and a LOT of money on travel. A knifemaker will never make a living in their local area. It's going to require national, and in some cases worldwide travel/exposure. For example, the Blade Show is one of my annual shows...to do that one show is routinely $2,000. That's to get there, do the show, and get back home. If I do not sell at least $2,000 worth of knives at the show, then I don't break even.
Looking back over the years, I have (conservatively) spend $25K+ going to Hammer-ins, seminars, classes, and other things that have aided me knifemaking career.
The biggest thing you must realize about being a "full time" knifemaker, is that it is not easy, it's not cheap, and your income is based on everyone else's disposable income. If people either do not have disposable income, or they perceive they do not have it, then the custom knifemaker is not going to get any of it.
My advice is that before you decide to make it a career, get out there to a few of the MAJOR knife shows, and see/learn what it's all about...especially the level of craftsmanship and quality that is available/expected.
Too many individuals see what the top makers are getting for their knives, and assume they can make an easy living making knives. It's just not so. Having been at this for over a quarter of a century, I can tell you that had I not retired from the military with a monthly pension, and have a Wife with a very good job, I would be out there working another job....and my children are grown and out on their own.
I don't mean to preach at you, but you really need to educate yourself about all the details of being a full time knifemaker BEFORE you make the leap.
 
Hello Cody. Pretty much what has already been said. Chuck, Terry, and Nick covered it very well. I will say it again, join the ABS. There is the Spring Hammer In coming up in Old Washington at the end of April. Makes for an educational and fun weekend with the opportunity to get to meet a lot of well known makers and learn from them. The ABS website has complete qualifications for the JS and MS tests. WWW.Americanbladesmith.com. I look forward to seeing you in the future at a show or event. I wish you the best.
Brion
 
I just went back and looked over what I wrote.....and I got way off topic with my reply.
After reading a couple of your posts, I had red flags going up in my head about people who try to jump into knifemaking with the wrong perceptions.

To the point of your actual question, join the ABS if that is the route you wish to pursue....The ABS will expose you to many more resources/Bladesmiths than you would otherwise have access to. Be aware that it's not going to be a "spoon feeding" scenario, but it will allow you will have access to many resources that you might not otherwise.
I've helped a number of individuals through the route from Apprentice to JS and MS....and in all cases it's not just an education about Knifemaking/Bladesmithing, but also a journey about the ins and outs of being a knifemaker. It's a journey that will help you become a better overall knifemaker, as well as a better person in general.
 
Last edited:
CodyOebel said:
I live in San Antonio, Texas.

I love making knives, and have been investing in tools, and slowly building what I need to make things easier for me forging. I like to forge, and dont like touching grinders and belt sanders etc... I like just using a hammer alone, but since a few customer requests came in for smoothed polished looking blades I had to gear up for it.

Thank you,

Cody Oebel

WWW.OebelKnives.COM
Click to expand...

"Are you bored with life?
Then throw yourself into some work you believe in with all your heart, live for it, die for it, and you will find happiness that you had thought could never be yours." --Dale Carnegie
 
Cody,

Harvey Dean puts a hammer in on twice a year there in Texas. You should get a hold of him.

Also, the ABS show happens in San Antonio, January 2012. That would be a perfect place to come see top makers and ask questions. Also another big advantage for you when you test is that we are now testing our members at the San Antonio show.

Starting at the 2012 show you can present your knives for judging in San Antonio. I'm not sure if you are a member of the ABS but joining now would be a good idea. Getting on the ABS website and looking at hammer ins and classes taught at ABS schools would be a good idea.

Feel free to call me if you have any questions about the ABS show. I'm on the organizing committee and would be happy to help you. Also look through the ABS website to find makers in your area.

Good luck.

Josh Smith
406-626-5775
 
In addition, forging is great but if you are going to be a maker that can pass the ABS test you better fall in love with your belt grinder, sandpaper, and files. The forge is just one small piece in a giant puzzle. Enjoy each aspect of making a knife and treat each step as though it is the most important.
 
Cody,
From reading some of your other posts, it is obvious that your heart is really in your work. That's the first step, because you will need to love this craft. Everything the others have written here is very good advice and information. I have been a professional bladesmith for about 7 years now, some of those years I was full time, the others, most of the time. I can tell you from my own experience that I have spent every penny I ever made from selling knives to buy the tools and the education I needed just to keep making knives. If I had a family to support, I don't think I could have done it. I owe everything I know about making and selling knives to the ABS. The testing and rating system that the ABS offers is only one small part of the picture. It's the network of other bladesmiths that makes the ABS the valuable organization that it is.
I started out exactly where you are now. I got Tim Lively's Knifemaking Unplugged video, built myself a mud forge, and started banging on leaf springs. That is still an aspect of knifemaking that I love, but the market for any one specific style of knife is limmited, and to make it as a full time knifemaker, you will need to sell a lot of knives, to a lot of people. That means you will need to know how to make a lot of different kinds of knives, including the pretty ones.

All of this advice is intended to help you become a better knifemaker, and to help you make that serious decision to become a professional bladesmith.

I may be off topic here too, since after re-reading your post, it seems like what you are really asking for is more testing methods for your knives. This is where there seems to be some confusion. Passing extreme tests is not the goal. Extreme performance is the goal. Testing is the last step in the process to check and see if you were able to do all the right things in your heat treating to achieve that extreme performance. To parahrase Kevin Cashen, a recognized authority on peformance heat treating, " do you think the guys who heat treat jumbo jet landing gear are going to rely on chopping hard wood and then look at the edge with a magnifying glass to see if they did their job right?" NO WAY! People's lives depend on that heat treating! The steel we use to make knives is designed by scientists who are mixing up carefully studied ingredients to produce specific qualities in that steel. The best way to achieve the highest potential performance from a given steel is to follow the maker's instructions for that steel. I am not trying to discourage you in any way from making knives the way you like to make them. Rather, I am encouraging you to arm yourself with as much knowledge of your craft as you can. Joining the ABS, and spending time with other knifemakers is the best way I know of to do that.

Rock on Brother! Best of luck.

Adam.
 
What an impressive group of posts. Don't know any of you guys but I know I'd like you! Watched your videos Cody and I know you mean business - Best of luck with mastering your craft - your heart is definitely in the right place.

Ray (a woodworker & knife user)
 
Snody said:
"Are you bored with life?
Then throw yourself into some work you believe in with all your heart, live for it, die for it, and you will find happiness that you had thought could never be yours." --Dale Carnegie
Click to expand...

Mr. Snody :)

Thank's for the quote sir. Once cash is free'd up I'm gonna be making that trip down there some day.

My business we spoke of should soon be taking off like a rocket.
:) Got a few business to start selling my product now!
 
To answer many of your questions.

I run a business on the side. I make more than a comfortible living from it these days. Aside of this business I also do allot of additional side work, and aside of that side work I make knives.

For me. It goes like this. I stay home with my kids. Wife is a full time LVN. I own two domains,(businesses), I manufacture my own product to be sold in stores. So I get a phone call for more product. I drop it off. Get paid. Go home and do nothing but wait for another phone call from one of my stores\retailers. So all that at home time got me bored. I throw knives, but one day started making knives all started by an online competition at the survivalist boards. Then I was absolutely hooked.

Also :) in secret and under the table knife making taught me allot. I know many cock fighters (rooster fighters\game birds). I made pair of gaff's out of 5160. Just sold those two days ago for 400$ :)

So when I say full time knife maker. Maybe it truly is not full time, but on my free time.
I have absolutely no problem selling any knife I make. I will in all honesty put it like this. Because I dont use fancy tools, or blank steel to cut a knife shape, and I forge everything by hand, and video it all. This is what sells the knife. The first knife I put up for sale I was absolutely doubting a person would ever call. 45 minutes after the craigslist post a gentlemen was on his way. When I handed that knife over and got cash in hand for it. Brothers let me tell you. I was absolutely amazed. So I forged and video'd a second. It sold the same day. So selling them with what I offer seems to be no problem for me. I will stay around mid-knife sized blades as they sell for what I want faster! In one of the video's the knife I chopped a 2x4 in half 3 times and cut my leg. I worked my arse off on that knife trying to get the leaf spring memory warp out, and couldnt. I wanted 800$ for that knife I put so much work into it, but I got 300$. So I know I wont get what I want, but I also know for the time being I can easily sell smaller knives to mid-ranged knives without being a journey smith or master smith for 150-300$ within days.

I am assuming here, but when people watch my video's after I post a craigslist add for the knife I made. They dont care if "Cody Oebel" is a journey smith. They just see this guy busting ass making a knife like a mid-evil black smith did, and then abuse the hell out of it, and for many of them (assuming here) they are sold instantly seeing the knife go through abuse and stay sharp. In their minds this hand crafted knife is superior to one in the store because they not only got a video of it being made, but a video showing what it's capable of, and what they will probably never do to the knife or need to do because they have video proof.

So it is a testament of pride in it's own. I dont need to know my knives sell. They sell for what I want them to be sold for. Is this a career for me? I dont know. I am not willing to travel out of state for a blade show because I dont have that much yet to offer, but in mny heart and mind. I bet my pocket that if I went to a blade show, and took a few dvd players and TV's and set them up, and let the DVD of the knife I have on the table for sell at a monumental price in front of a man who has a wealthy life as he watches that TV and knife being forged when he asks me "Is this the knife in the video?", and I say "Yes sir, this DVD comes with the knife as authentic hand made proof", and my knife is ever so bit ugly compared to most all master smiths. I would be willing to bet I would get that nice 1000$ + price whether I pulled out a paper showing I was a journey smith or master smith.
In it's very own the ugly knife I make becomes a superior art when you watch it being made. For if I die tomorrow you have a video of me still living putting my soul into that blade. This is priceless!

So thanks for all of the comments and criticism. I do need to anchor my anvil in a bucket of concrete to get more efficiency from it. I will do these little things as time allows.
I'm building a house right now and am consumed for time, but managed to get my website up for the least of things.

I will see how far this goes, but if it goes no further than where I am at now I am perfectly fine with that.

The information that a ABS meeting is being held in San Antonio is exactly the answer I was looking for. Meanwhile until the even is held. I am going to visit the ABS website and read up, and see what I must do, and try to find some 1" thick rope, and do some rope cuts and so forth. I havent cut a rope ever, but it will be fun to do, and to video!

Thank you everyone who replied to this post. I took no offense to anything said, and took it all very constructively. Plus I'm hard headed and stubborn as it gets so as cinic as I am nothing could get me down. ;)
 
joshsmith said:
In addition, forging is great but if you are going to be a maker that can pass the ABS test you better fall in love with your belt grinder, sandpaper, and files. The forge is just one small piece in a giant puzzle. Enjoy each aspect of making a knife and treat each step as though it is the most important.
Click to expand...



I havent researched why, but why is this so?
This could be the one major reason I convince myself that using these tools is perfectly fine.

:)
 
joshsmith said:
Cody,

Harvey Dean puts a hammer in on twice a year there in Texas. You should get a hold of him.

Also, the ABS show happens in San Antonio, January 2012. That would be a perfect place to come see top makers and ask questions. Also another big advantage for you when you test is that we are now testing our members at the San Antonio show.

Starting at the 2012 show you can present your knives for judging in San Antonio. I'm not sure if you are a member of the ABS but joining now would be a good idea. Getting on the ABS website and looking at hammer ins and classes taught at ABS schools would be a good idea.

Feel free to call me if you have any questions about the ABS show. I'm on the organizing committee and would be happy to help you. Also look through the ABS website to find makers in your area.

Good luck.

Josh Smith
406-626-5775
Click to expand...


Cody Oebel will be there !


You going to be there Snody? This perfect! A God Send!
THE ANSWER I WAS LOOKING FOR :), and I have a whole year + to prepare for this day.

Gives me time to go to Snody's and pick his brains for knowledge too! Heh.. thats a trip I'm still dying to make. I want to see that carbon fuser, and a real master smiths shop :)



:)
 
"Knives are art. When's the last time any of us went to a crescent wrench show? "
i had to laugh when I read that! I think you're right though.... I really can't remember the last time.....





tvandeventer said:
Join the ABS. You don't have to be a member to attend its functions. But if you ever aspire to actually take the journeyman & masters tests, you'll need to have been a member for a requisit period of time. Hob-nob with other makers. Take classes and attend seminars. Go to hammer-ins. You'll be amazed what you'll learn.

Testing our knives is very important but don't waste time re-inventing the wheel. The informatiion is there for the asking. Temperatures and quench mediums are well known and proven. A 1:4 ratio of panther pee & snake oil won't cut it :). I'm just saying that the ABS is an educational organization with a goal to develop and promote the hand-forged knife. The ABS is there for you.

At the ABS website you can get the criteria for both journeyman and masters tests. Everyone who formally takes the test (hopefully) has already taken the test on their own many times. There may have been exceptions, but if they have never cut a rope or bent their knives in their own shop, you can bet that they'll probably fail miserably.

Don't look at me as judgemental but if you are going to sell knives, you're going to have to strive for superlative fit & finish. People are already asking you for that. They have to look good. They have to catch the customer's eye. Otherwise he'll never pick it up for a closer look. Knives are art. When's the last time any of us went to a crescent wrench show? Or tested to be master level screwdriver maker? Do drill press shows exist where exclusive hand-made, gold-inlayed, engraved drill presses sell to wealthy collectors? I'm being facetious but the fact is, knives are more than that. They are much more than "just tools."

I'm long-winded but I think you are wanting to get off in the right direction, and you certainly have a love for what you're doing. Just my advice for what it's worth. Maybe answered a question or two.

Cheers,

TV


Terry Vandeventer
ABS MS
Click to expand...
 
CodyOebel said:
I havent researched why, but why is this so?
This could be the one major reason I convince myself that using these tools is perfectly fine.

:)
Click to expand...


To efficiently make a knife that will pass the MS/JS test you have to have a good grasp on each step of making a knife. A test knife must have good edge geometry and be finished to a very high level. The forge and anvil is just a tool to help you achieve those goals. Sure, you could make a test knife without a belt grinder, but if your going to do that you will spend countless hours filing the blade perfectly.

Personally I forge for two reasons. One, because I enjoy it, and two because it allows me to use material efficiently and to create knife patterns from stock I could not otherwise. Once done forging the belt grinder is where you really refine your blade creating good edge geometry and a smoother finish cutting down on hand finish time.

Once done grinding then you must be able to effectively hand sand and file your blade to perfection removing any imperfection from grinding.

I guess what I'm saying is done of these steps are more or less important than the other. They must all be done effectively and an MS/JS can perform each function effectively.

Email the ABS Expo and request a table if you'd like one and make sure you contact the ABS office if you want to test in order to assure you are eligible and in good standing with the ABS. Good luck.
 
CodyOebel said:
Also :) in secret and under the table knife making taught me allot. I know many cock fighters (rooster fighters\game birds). I made pair of gaff's out of 5160. Just sold those two days ago for 400$ :)
Click to expand...

Hey man, I was trying to let this slide, but my big mouth and my conscience are getting the better of me. I don't want to make a pissing contest out of this, or sound like I'm taking the moral high ground, but cock fighting is illegal. Perhaps you should omit that part of your story (which kind of includes you as an accessory) and just tell us about the tool you made that you sold for $400.

If I remember, you were inspired to make knives by Tim Lively's video and style of primitive knifemaking. If that's your preference, and you have no interest in making knives any other way, stick to it. Just because a collective does something a certain way doesn't mean that you have to! I bring this up only because your previous posts lend an air of 'rugged individualist'... perhaps you need to do things the way you need to, and not by the guidelines of others. A word of caution regarding heat treatment, though - you may want to investigate the why's and how's of heat treating, as I suspect you'll find that you can get quite a lot of gain by understanding what's happening when you heat, beat, and quench.

I see nothing wrong with doing it your way, just be sure to remember that because it's your way doesn't necessarily preclude the ways of others from being correct, either. A smart guy would try to learn from as many schools as possible!
 
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