Question for Cliff Stamp regarding Spyderco Military

[kwackster]

As you know in the Spyderco Military, next to the standard S30V blade, there is now also the BG42 version.
It has a slightly thinner blade, partial double metal liners,bronze washers and a carbon fibre handle.

Which of these steels would you prefer in this type of knife, and why.
Has the BG42 a higher edge stability ?

Do you feel the carbon fibre is an improvement over the standard G10

Does the knife as a whole benefit from the extra partial liner.

 

[donny b]

the blade issue to me is secondary to the possibility of the carbon fiber handle giving you splinters if dropped? no hijack intended.

 

[gud4u]

The BG42 Military is the best evolution of the Military in my opinion.

For equally-finished S30V (Manix) and BG42 blades (10 degree main bevels, 15 degree micro-bevels), edge stability was equal in 2 hardwood-pointings. Neither suffered in either edge quality or edge damage.

For me, the BG42 blade has essentially equal edge stability and edge retention as the S30V blade, but the BG42 blade is clearly easier to sharpen and maintain. For quantitative BG42 vs S30V measurement, wait for Cliff's response.

The BG42 Military construction features:
- Second hidden steel liner.
- CF scale material replaces G10.
- CF scales are also thicker than G10 scales of former Military.

My older Military is easily flexed by hand, but the BG42 Military resists twisting by hand pressure. This means improved liner-lock stability, since the lock can't be defeated by handle-flex (neither of my Millies has ever suffered a lock failure).

Hope this helps!

 

[Native Justice]

A somwhat naive observation Donny but valid I suppose.

Kwackster, the CF BG42 is a better model but only in very small ways. The BG42 will take a finer edge than the S30V but not hold it as long as the S30V. The BG42 model has the dual liners but that adds (almost insignificant) weight. The dual liners are less necessary on the CF scales because they are already extremely ridgid. I have 2 of the S30V CF models and chose to pass on the BG42 because for most of us, the differences between these 2 models is almost undetectable. Go for whichever is the most affordable and available.

 

[barrabas74]

good4u I agree, I switch out my S30V military and my BG-42 military throughout the month and the BG-42 is easier to sharpen. All that you said there I agree with.

"For me, the BG42 blade has essentially equal edge stability and edge retention as the S30V blade, but the BG42 blade is clearly easier to sharpen and maintain. For quantitative BG42 vs S30V measurement, wait for Cliff's response.

The BG42 Military construction features:
- Second hidden steel liner.
- CF scale material replaces G10.
- CF scales are also thicker than G10 scales of former Military.

My older Military is easily flexed by hand, but the BG42 Military resists twisting by hand pressure. This means improved liner-lock stability, since the lock can't be defeated by handle-flex (neither of my Millies has ever suffered a lock failure)."

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Which of these steels would you prefer in this type of knife, and why.

If I had to pick blind, BG-42, simply as the number of reported problems with it are low. My main incentive from a functional perspective would be because I would be curious about its behavior as I have not worked with it extensively, especially considering gud4u's recent comments. Plus I am interested in how the higher fatigue life of the VIM/VAR manufacturing process of BG-42 effects long term edge retention and resharpening.

Has the BG42 a higher edge stability ?

Both are similar high carbide stainless and S30V is a P/M steel so the carbides will be much smaller. The main thing would be the heat treatment, the have been reports of significant variation in S30V HRC's and this could effect the results far more than S30V vs BG-42.

Do you feel the carbon fibre is an improvement over the standard G10

I have not worked with carbon fibre extensively.

My older Military is easily flexed by hand, but the BG42 Military resists twisting by hand pressure. This means improved liner-lock stability, since the lock can't be defeated by handle-flex (neither of my Millies has ever suffered a lock failure)."

I don't doubt a stiffer handle makes for a more secure lock but I would question as to how much more secure. I have seen handles which didn't flex and locks came undone easily and the opposite. Generally it is rare to have a handle be that weak that it causes a problem because the blade, especially the tip, would go first in most situations.

-Cliff

 

[STR]

Not that I was asked but to me the BG42 model is the one to try to snag. BG42 is simply a rarer steel and not as often used for the reasons stated regarding special heat treat and manufacturing of it.

I think the fact that you usually only see BG42 steel in high end knives and/or limited edition knives in limited numbers will without doubt mean that the BG42 models will hold their value longer than the same model in S30V and in the long run be more sought after and collector worthy as well. The fact that it has fewer reported problems with it doesn't hurt a thing either.

STR

 

[nozh2002]

Not that I was asked but to me the BG42 model is the one to try to snag. BG42 is simply a rarer steel and not as often used for the reasons stated regarding special heat treat and manufacturing of it.

BG42 has better reviews. As I read Sebenza with BG42 was reported better then CPM S30V one. Buck limited edition knives with BG42 is extremely expencive. And Spyderco charge more for it. I heart that Sal sad that it is best among non PM steel according to his tests. I guess CPM has better wear resistance because of vanadium carbides but for same reason BG-42 has better edge and better hardness.

BTW - RoaArms making knives out of Russian BG42 - 110x18MSHD (same stainless ball bearing steel used in airspace industry), which is even better because use additional purification processes - Electro Slug Remelting plus Electric Ark Remelting.

Cliff, did you test 110x18MSHD?

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff, did you test 110x18MSHD?

Not as of yet. Lots of interesting steels to work with. I'd like to check in detail the performance of 1.2562 vs W1. I like to know at what sharpness as the blades blunt the superior wear resistance of 1.2652 pulls ahead. Both of these are cold work steels, very high hardness, 1.2562 has a much higher carbide fraction but has still a much higher edge stability than steels like 154CM.

I'd also be very interested in Carpenters CD#1 vs INFI. CD#1 offers about 2.5 times the toughness of A2 at about 80% of the wear resistance. Of course more materials data would be useful, full temper responces and torsional + izod data. On paper it looks like a nice combination of toughness+wear resistance. CPM-1V looks interesting as well. Ideally I'd like to see a P/M cold work version of those steels.

Carpenters Maxamet would be interesting to work with as well. I don't even know if a very thin knife edge could form on that material as it is basically a interpolation between pure carbide and HSS. Very hard, 70+ HRC, with a very high carbide fraction and of course is a P/M. Of course trying to convince a knife maker to grind it would be challenging and the heat treatment is very demanding.

-Cliff

 

[lambertiana]

As Cliff said, any performance difference would come down to the heat treat. I don't have any BG-42 from Spyderco so I can't comment directly on their heat treat, but I do have a couple from Buck. And, in my experience, it holds an edge slightly better than my S30V from Buck, Spyderco, and Benchmade. Not by much, the average user would probably not really notice it. That edgeholding difference was noted in cardboard and pine, your results may vary with other materials.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Was your experience similar in regards to Gud4u in responce to sharpening?

-Cliff

 

[lambertiana]

Actually, I have found the BG-42 to be a little harder to sharpen, too. It isn't thicker on the edge bevel, so I am removing similar amounts of steel. It may be a point higher on the rockwell, which could explain the differences that I have seen.