Question for Sal: A Spyderco without the hole??

J

Jesper

Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
12
The discussion about the british-legal Spyderco on British Blades got me thinking:

The British have the problem that they are not allowed to carry locking folders, but the folders can be one-handed. Here in Denmark it is the other way around: Folders can be locking, but not one-handed.

How about a two-handed Spyderco, that is, one without a hole? The Calypso Jr. would be just about perfect. I think the overall shape of the knife would still say Spyderco, even without the hole. It could be done with any model without additional manufacturing costs (I think): Just skip the hole.

I realize, that Denmark is a small market, but it is one that Spyderco has been unable to get into since all current Spyderco folders are illegal here. Maybe other European countries have laws that ban one-hand knives? This would extend the market.

Anyway, it was a thought

Jesper Korsgaard, Denmark
 
Meanwhile most criminals who use knives aren't popping into the knife shop to pick up a $150 folder, they're using something out of Ma's kitchen. Laws can be really stupid sometimes!
 
Hi Jesper, Welcome to the Spyderco forum and thanx for the suggestion.

Spyderco has been making folding knives since 1981. With only one exception, every folding knife that we have produced had a round opening hole. It was this dedicated consistency that allowed us to get a trademark for that shaped opening hole.

After 23 years of dedication to create and maintain a trademark, it would be counter productive for us to deviate at this time.

However, we're not opposed to making a knife for Denmark that had a round hole but could not be opened with one hand, maybe.

From my experience, ANY folding knife can be opened with one hand, one way or another.

sal
 
Hi Sal,

thank you for your answer. I see your point about the hole, it was just the way I could think of, that required the least modification of an existing knife.

I'm glad to hear that you're "maybe not opposed" (you're not letting your enthusiasm carry you away here ;) ) to making a special knife for Denmark. There are very few quality folders on the danish market. A Buck 110 is about as good as it gets.

I know that Leatherman made a special version of the Wave for Denmark without the hole in the blade. So they must have found it worthwhile. But again, it's easy to just omit the hole.

Perhaps it would be possible to make the hole smaller and maybe round the edges so it couldn't be used for opening the knife, but was merely cosmetic?

Jesper
 
Wonder if something like this...
spyderhole.jpg

...might work.
 
It seems to me that if you added a second notch in the blade, in the area that I guess would be called the ricasso, a model with the compression lock could be made to lock closed as well. Then, even with the hole the knife would require two hands to open and could not be spyder-dropped.
 
One thing that might work would be an additional lock, this time a lock to keep the blade closed.
Possibly the best would be a button lock as used by Willam Henry. If it was put near the pivot, it would need the right thumb (taking it as being a right handed knife) to depress it in order to release the blade, then the left hand would be needed to open the blade like a slipjoint, but instead of a nail nick, the Spyderhole would be used instead.

The extra lock could be sold as an additional safety feature. It would need two hands to open, but would be a lot smoother than any slipjoint.
 
There's no doubt that it's possible to design a knife that locks open (doh! I mean closed of course), but I don't know if the danish market is large enough to support the development of an entirely new model.

The Genius of Paul's idea is that, besides looking cool, it's so simple. It can be done to any existing model with only a different programming of the laser cutter.
 
yog said:
Possibly the best would be a button lock [...] then the left hand would be needed to open the blade like a slipjoint
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. The knives I know which have a button lock can easily be opened one handed by flicking them. I would change your idea a little bit and add a strong slipjoint backspring to the button lock. I know it sounds strange but in this case (if the spring is strong enough) you will definitely need two hands to open it - no matter what you do.

As for the looks I would prefer The Deacon's idea. That is just too cool :D

Cheers, Robert
 
Good input. Maybe we can help the Danes out.

Our distributor has fought with the Danish Govt on a number of occassions. Last time we won, it was decided that a knife could be one hand open if the blade was under 70mm. That's why the "Q" model was 70mm.

Then the law was reversed a year later.

Jesper, what is the story on blade length limit in Denmark?

What type and size of knife would be best accepted? Do we currently make a model that would be accepted with a smaller hole or a hole like Deacon suggested?

Deacon, very nice idea..

sal
 
Deacon, I really dig your idea. Fixes the no 1-hand rule, but keeps the company's trademark and signature. I'd be guessing that a Danish version of the Delica and/or Endura with the filled-in hole would be the best choice. You wouldn't really have to design a new knife (ie: same blade stock, etc), just the right tooling to make the skeletonization (but Spyderco's done this in the past).
 
Hi Sal,

The blade limit is still 70mm. That is, you can carry a 70mm folder everywhere where there's public access. If you have a good reason like work, hunting, fishing, sports or "some other honourable purpose" you can carry a larger folder. So this basically means don't carry a large folder when you go shopping or go to a restaurant. The target for the police is teenagers who bring knives when they go to the disco.

A browse through your selection yielded these:

Salsa 63mm
Kiwi 63mm
Dragonfly 58mm
Jester 51mm
Navigator 54mm (discontinued)

(Calypso Jr. 72mm)
(Progrip 71mm)

There isn't really a knife that's spot on, but I find it almost impossible to belive that any policeman would raise an eyebrow about 71 or 72mms unless you looked like a killer and he wanted a reason to take your knife. I recently had a Calypso Jr. confiscated in customs (okay, it was stupid to try) and the policeman who called me said the length was okay but the one-handed opening was a no-no.

I would really love to see a two-handed Calypso Jr. How long is the blade if you measure an actual knife? The front of the handle is angled, so the length must be different depending on where you measure.

A smaller alternative would be the Dragonfly, although it doesn't have a VG10 blade.


Some thoughts on the danish market:

The knives I see sold most often at outdoor shops are Gerber, Buck and Victorinox. Gerber Gator and Buck 110/112 are pretty popular. I think something like these would be your main competition. A Delica would also work here. Very few people carry knives daily and if they do, it's almost always a Swiss Army Knife. Expensive knives are bought for outdoor use and then the blade limit doesn't matter.
Of course this is only based on people I know. Since you have briefly been on the danish market, you must have had a distributor, who knows more about this.

There's also the question of price. USA-made stuff is very expensive here. A Gerber Gator costs about $80, a Gerber LST costs $40 and a Buck 110 about $100!! Swiss Army Knives are more reasonably priced.

A Spyderco with VG10 steel would be superior to anything I've seen for sale here.

Jesper
 
Hi Jesper,
We have to remember the newest law making a folder that locks illigal to carry in public. This would meen a small Spyderco folder, no lock and no hole. To make it interesting I would love there to be a variaty in blades fx; a Hawkbill, a sheepfoot a droppoint and all in the same FRN handle with ss clip. All styles should be offered with SE or PE!! THAT WOULD BE COOL!!! Just like a MINI Endura handle with the 3 different blade types.
Jesper/ALIass to some known as VOX
DENMARK
 
Hi Jesper (it's your name too?)

What law is that? The newest law I've heard about was last year when they tried a total ban on all knives, but that was too silly to go through. There has never been any mention of locks in the danish knife law.
 
What about a current Spyderco with a lock that keeps it closed. Put a lock on the non-pivot end, that you have to release with both hands. Maybe a "ball-lock", or a "secure-lok" that would have to be released, before the blade would open. It could still have a lock to hold it open(is that legal?? locking open??) I hope Spyderco comes up with something for ya.



Blades
 
Jesper said:
Hi Jesper (it's your name too?)

What law is that? The newest law I've heard about was last year when they tried a total ban on all knives, but that was too silly to go through. There has never been any mention of locks in the danish knife law.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, but there is now. Went into action on the 30. of april -04 IIRC. You can still buy locked folders but not carry them in public. This makes Denmark the #1 SAK marked in the world, I guess!!
I think the Spydie should be one you could carry ALWAYS, not just around the house.....
OBTW, Jesper is my name too :D
ALIass
Hvor i landet bor du, jeg er fra midtjylland. Mail mig evt. voxnaes11@hotmail.com
 
Hi Jesper & Jesper. What about the UK knife with no hole. It doesn't lock. We would put an engraving of the hole, maybe with crosshatch pattern. It would have to be opened with two hands and it does not lock. We would make the blade 70mm instead of the current 76mm. We could also make a short test run?

The laser cut bug in the hole is a great idea, unfortunately it would take EDM (I don't think a laser could do a good job on something so small) which would drive the price up quite a bit.

sal
 
What about using a waterjet for cutting out the hole. Personally, I'd be willing to pay a couple of extra bucks for a spider pattern cut in the blade.
 
The "Other" Jesper:

I've done a little research and I see that you're right. Only slipjoints under 70 mm are legal public carry now. Good thing that you caught that. I would have been very embarrassing to have Sal make a locking knife only to discover later that it wasn't legal. Strange that there has been so little mention of this, since it must turn a lot of people into unknowing criminals.

Sal:

I think the UK Penknife is very nice. A 70mm version of that would be perfect! Too bad the cut-out spider is not feasible. Would it be possible to do the same as an engraving?

Jesper
 
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