Question for the LEOs

T

Tengu Joker

Joined
Dec 6, 2005
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258
Is a push dagger type knife still illegal to carry if it isn't a dagger but a single edged blade? ? ?
 
Probably depends on your jurisdiction.

In Calif, you can carry any size folder as long as it's carried in the closed position. But a few states over, they bust you for anything over 3 inches. In the UK, you pretty much can't carry anything.

Check your local regs. And don't just ask any cop. Seriously, most of them don't actually know.

Are you referring to the cold steel push knives? They have the urban pal and another one that are single edge and pretty inexpensive. I'm going to hit up their parking lot sale next month and pick one up, among other things. :D
 
Many jurisdictions are shy of knives that are designed as dedicated weapons; that is, they have no other apparent purpose.
Kind of silly to glance askance at a "tactical" folder but think nothing of a brass-and-wood handled folder of the same size and blade shape....
 
Would be in Texas. As long as it is the legal length and not double edged. I believe that particular push dagger by cold steel is advertised for first responders, so would help with perception.
Tery
 
I could not answer this question definitively for any jurisdiction but my own, and the way DAs are allowed to interpret things, here in Texas, anything called a dagger by its maker could certainly be called a dagger by the DA, and a charge be filed. CASE LAW in Texas indicates that that a dagger has two sharpened edges, but case law is not as clear-cut as the actual Penal Code. An appeals court judge ruled that a knife with two sharpened edges is a dagger, with the back edge, in that particular case, being sharpened for one inch of its length. (I can't quote the name of the case, but do recall reading the decision.)

If a dagger is specifically termed as illegal under local law, I wouldn't carry, as a private citizen, something that is specifically or generically called a push dagger, unless something in the law clearly indicated the knife in question would be legal.

FWIW, while I can carry virtually any weapon in Texas due to my peace officer status, I have no use for push daggers. I do carry small stout fixed blades, but they are normally single-edged, and not T-handled.

Edited to add: The OP lives in Alabama, apparently. I could, I suppose, search for the applicable AL weapons laws, but I think I am out of my pay grade to try to interpret AL laws.
 
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Since knives are so variable, the usual course followed by local law enforcement is simply to drag the thing in to the local prosecutor and let him have a look.

The concealed-weapons statute is pretty vague, but does include "dirks, daggers, and spring-back knives". When was the last time you saw anyone with a dirk?

Likely one of those statutes that needs to be updated.
 
mwerner said:
Since knives are so variable, the usual course followed by local law enforcement is simply to drag the thing in to the local prosecutor and let him have a look.

The concealed-weapons statute is pretty vague, but does include "dirks, daggers, and spring-back knives". When was the last time you saw anyone with a dirk?

Likely one of those statutes that needs to be updated.
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As Brother mwerner said. I will add that my personal and professional opinion as a police and trainer is that using any type of dagger many increase your exposure during criminal and civil proceedings. Looking beyond the weapon charge and more at intent and perception.- George
 
mercop said:
Looking beyond the weapon charge and more at intent and perception.
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Glad you brought this up. This is a question we wrestle with over in the Knife Laws subforum here at BFC.

A lot of folks want to know the letter of the law, and is "X" knife legal or illegal by that metric.

But a large number of state and local laws are NOT written that way, because it would take seconds for people to find loopholes and exceptions.

Indeed, many laws are now being written with the language of intent and perception. I wish more were, as it would clear things up...get rid of the ill-defined and ever-shifting words like dirk and dagger...and simply stay with the intent.

If you are carrying a Ka-Bar on your hip solely as a tool for home and garden, by the use of intent laws, you're fine.

If you are carrying a 1.5-inch mini-folder as a weapon, you're breaking the law, regardless of the definition.

Nice and simple. Covers all weapons today and yet to be invented, without nutty middle-ages words. I'm surprised some states don't list "bare bodkin" as a prohibited weapon!

And it would simplify the issue: not whether brand X knife is illegal, but is it legal to carry with what I intend to do with it? Or a stick. Or an axe. Or a bent pipe. Whatever.
 
Well stated and misunderstood information. The are very few black and white answers when it comes to use of force and weapons use. It is not about ingredients, more like grains of sand. So many variable. Look from the outside in about the perception and limit your exposure where possible but remain aware, ready and armed.- George
 
Watchful said:
Glad you brought this up. This is a question we wrestle with over in the Knife Laws subforum here at BFC.

A lot of folks want to know the letter of the law, and is "X" knife legal or illegal by that metric.

But a large number of state and local laws are NOT written that way, because it would take seconds for people to find loopholes and exceptions.

Indeed, many laws are now being written with the language of intent and perception. I wish more were, as it would clear things up...get rid of the ill-defined and ever-shifting words like dirk and dagger...and simply stay with the intent.

If you are carrying a Ka-Bar on your hip solely as a tool for home and garden, by the use of intent laws, you're fine.

If you are carrying a 1.5-inch mini-folder as a weapon, you're breaking the law, regardless of the definition.

Nice and simple. Covers all weapons today and yet to be invented, without nutty middle-ages words. I'm surprised some states don't list "bare bodkin" as a prohibited weapon!

And it would simplify the issue: not whether brand X knife is illegal, but is it legal to carry with what I intend to do with it? Or a stick. Or an axe. Or a bent pipe. Whatever.
Click to expand...

But "intent" is a double-edged sword (no pun intended). If legality of knife carry is based solely on intent, then you're at the complete mercy of cops. Under this principle, even a standard Victorinox Tinker is illegal if the officer thinks it's intended as a weapon. The officer's judgment of my intent can be vastly different than my real intent. Essentially I can be booked for carrying a keychain knife if somebody as much thinks that I have criminal intentions, without me actually committing anything.

I like it better if knives of any size are legal to carry as long as they're not used in the commission of a felony. There's a whole world of difference between "intended" and "used".
 
The knife laws all over the USA are truely hard to interpet as to wheter or not you are in violation. Many states follow the idea that certain designs are weapons and have no other purpose so possession of them is intent. Your statements as to why you carry a knife is also a consideration. A car with three young men was pulled over by the NYPD and there were a set of steak knives found in the car. The officer asked why the knives were in the car, and the three men stated they had been chased by a gang and wanted some form of protection. They were all arrested and charged with CPW ( criminal weapons possession)....never say a knife is a weapon and that includes self defense !!!!
 
The old if you have a baseball bat you better have a ball and glove idea.- George
 
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