- Joined
- May 11, 1999
- Messages
- 61
Most of the forgeded blades I've seen are flat groundor convex. Do any of you guys hollow grind any of your blades?
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Question for you forgers
- Thread starter Sammy Mickel
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 2, 1999
- Messages
- 9,910
Sammy, I forge carbon steels and make damascus. I hollow grind on the knives that would look best that way. I passed my journeyman test with a thin convex grind because of the strength for the 2x4 chopping. I like a large hollow on skinners and a small hollow on double edges. Flat grinds work for most hunters and meat cutting I think. Forged to shape knives usually get a convex or almost flat grind because after a good manipulation at the anvil there is very little grinding to do. Traditional bowies were almost all hollow because of the huge wheels back then. Not too many belt grinders with flat platens in those days I guess.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 1999
- Messages
- 1,409
Sammy,
I'll likely get seveal who disagree, but the reason you see most forgers using convex or flats is that as far as cut-ablity, they are superior to hollow grinds. Now before everyone goes off on me, take the time to do a few simple cutting tests with a set of opti-visors on your head. Using blades with flat, hollow, and convex grinds, cut through several different types of materials, watching closely how the different grinds/edges effect the material being cut. A hollow grind will act like a wedge, especially those with larger edge bevels. The material being cut is forced outwards by the trailing edges of the bevel and in many cases actually will lift the cutting edge off the material being cut. This forces the user to exert more force (which equals effort) to cut the material. A flat grind (if left thick at the edge before sharpening) will produce a similar effect. A convex grind, done correctly, will have very small, or better yet, no edge bevels, and the material being cut will flow with the contour of the blade. This effectivly reduces the effort required of the user, basically allowing one to utilize less effort to cut the same material. This, to me, is what makes one type of grind/edge better than another.
This whole thing also plays into what I call "The Overall Package" of a knife. The maker must take into consideration the type of edge applied to a knife, what type of steel the edge lends itself to, and what type of heat treatment is necessary to obtain the strength and durability on that given steel, with that type of edge. Many times a hollow grind (more accurately semi-hollow grind) is used to make an edge stronger, that would otherwise chip at a given hardness. Or in some cases, it is used simply because it looks good. Neither of these are good reasons (IMHO) for applying a grind to a USING knife. If one is making a collector piece, where looks are the desired end result, then there are not rules.
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Ed Caffrey "The Montana Bladesmith"
ABS Mastersmith
www.caffreyknives.com
I'll likely get seveal who disagree, but the reason you see most forgers using convex or flats is that as far as cut-ablity, they are superior to hollow grinds. Now before everyone goes off on me, take the time to do a few simple cutting tests with a set of opti-visors on your head. Using blades with flat, hollow, and convex grinds, cut through several different types of materials, watching closely how the different grinds/edges effect the material being cut. A hollow grind will act like a wedge, especially those with larger edge bevels. The material being cut is forced outwards by the trailing edges of the bevel and in many cases actually will lift the cutting edge off the material being cut. This forces the user to exert more force (which equals effort) to cut the material. A flat grind (if left thick at the edge before sharpening) will produce a similar effect. A convex grind, done correctly, will have very small, or better yet, no edge bevels, and the material being cut will flow with the contour of the blade. This effectivly reduces the effort required of the user, basically allowing one to utilize less effort to cut the same material. This, to me, is what makes one type of grind/edge better than another.
This whole thing also plays into what I call "The Overall Package" of a knife. The maker must take into consideration the type of edge applied to a knife, what type of steel the edge lends itself to, and what type of heat treatment is necessary to obtain the strength and durability on that given steel, with that type of edge. Many times a hollow grind (more accurately semi-hollow grind) is used to make an edge stronger, that would otherwise chip at a given hardness. Or in some cases, it is used simply because it looks good. Neither of these are good reasons (IMHO) for applying a grind to a USING knife. If one is making a collector piece, where looks are the desired end result, then there are not rules.
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Ed Caffrey "The Montana Bladesmith"
ABS Mastersmith
www.caffreyknives.com
- Joined
- May 11, 1999
- Messages
- 61
Thanks for the info guys. So how do you sharpen flat or convex blades on a set of stones?
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