Question for you German car guys

Steely_Gunz

Steely_Gunz

Got the Khukuri fevah
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Ok, as many of you know my wife was rear ended a week and a half ago in her Honda Civic (we were also very grateful for the thoughts, smoke, and prayers). She loved that little car. We just bought it in September, but it is a total loss. Anyway, we are now shopping for a new car. We have it narrowed down to 3 cars.
An '02 Civic just like the one she had except it is white, has tinted windows, and 11,000 more miles than her's had. Not a bad car, in great shape, and will run forever. However, we don't feel like we are upgrading or even breaking even with this car. Our payments will be a tad higher as we are not getting enough back to cover the down payment that we put on her Civic, the car has more miles (this is a minor factor for a civic), and the car feels a little "pimped out". My guess is a kid had this car first. My wife is looking for a car with a little more professional feel to it. She has spent this long in school, got her EDS (think masters degree +), and has her career. She doesn't want to look like a kid driving around in a slightly pimped auto. This is our #3 pick so far.

Next on the list is an '02 Honda Accord. It has about the same miles on it, is an EX model like her old Civic, and leather seats. Not a bad car, and it feels like we will be taking the chance to upgrade. Kids are still a few years away, but having the space in case they come sooner is a big plus. Like the Civic, this thing will run forever. The HUGE downside, it's the most God Awful Burgundy color. I HATE Burgundy with a passion. My color choice is white or silver or black or blue or even a sage green. I hate Gold and Tan, but they are above Burgundy. Sounds superficial, and it is. However, i will be paying on this car for 5 years. 5 years is a long time to look at an ugly car. I WILL NOT pay to have a perfectly good paint job redone because I don't like the color however. Brenna is not keen on the color either...so it get's our #2 spot.

That leaves us with our #1 pick...so far. An '04 VW Jetta 4 door sedan. This car right here:
3VWSE69M94M016894-a.jpg

We have had a German car before. A '96 Audi A6. Great car...until it hit 100,000 miles. Then it was down hill from there. We KNOW it's not as reliable or as long lived as a Honda. However, we have become smitten with this car. Brenna likes the fact that it is cute, gets ok mileage (29mpg compared to her 32ish), and looks more young professional. It also has all the fancy bells and whistles that she liked in our hand-me-down Audi. Heated seats, moonroof, side airbags, "German Engineering", etc. I like the power. It has a 1.8L Turbo 4 cyc engine that cranks out around 180hp, that pins you to the seat. Plus it has a 5 speed manual (not Bren's favorite, but she can drive a stick). Most of the time, when we go anywhere I let her drive. I just find automatic sedans boring. I'd rather sit and look out the window. This little Jetta?...well Papa's gonna be in the captains seat on the road trips from now on;)
HOWEVER, we are both rational (some would say overly rational) people that want to make sure than what we buy is going to be reasonable and the best for our money. Gas is going up and the Jetta takes premium. However, my wife is out of her internship and will be making about 10K more a year than she did as a gopher. She will also be driving 60 miles at the very least to and from work. Many times, a lot more than that as she has to travel from school to school to test kids all over the county. However, we have a good mech that works on nothing but German and Japanese cars.
Do any of you guys have any experience with VW or the Jettas? We are going back to take it out for another spin tonight along with the other Hondas. I think we're going to buy on Saturday. Any info would be great.

Thanks in advance,
Jake
 
I think VW probably makes some good cars. On the other hand, we just spend 4 thousand too much for a used car for me to have a respectable opinion on any car.



munk
 
Steely -

Do a little research. The Jetta is German designed, but is no longer German-manufactured. It's hecho en Mexico... Made in Mexico. The new Beetle is as well. I have several friends who are Audi/VW enthusiasts, and none of them have ANYTHING good to say about the new Jettas. Neither does Consumer Reports.

It is a sharp little car - and I love the way they drive. But from what I hear, they are plagued with electrical and mechanical problems, and VW's warranty is the WORST in the world... you have to take it to them. Period.

If you like the little Jetta, check out the 2004-2006 Mazda3. Better mileage, better performance, better warrranty... better price.

Hope this is some help.
 
Some thoughts to add to confusion:
1) don't knock boring in a car. Randomly not starting or conking out just out of cell phone range is not boring.
2) If the price of gas bugs you, don't get something that needs premium. You don't want to be cussing your car every time you fill up. If you'll be able to shrug it off as part of the price of having a higher performance car, OK.
3) Do you have a trusted mechanic nearby? What's he say?
4) Do you have more than one dealer for the make you're interested in nearby? It's bad when the only dealer is a jerk or worse, there is neither a dealer nor any other good local source for parts.
5) You are very very wise to not want to try to change a car's paint color.

As for exciting cars, I sometimes wish I had more room to keep an old MG or whatnot around.
 
Jake?

Get the Civic.

I've been driving VW since...er...1970 or so, except when an Audi 100 slipped in there (lovely car, sent two children of a mechanic through Private College), gas isn't going to go down, the 10K more she is making shouldn't be spent on making the trips to work.

My '88 VW Fox was made in Brazil.

I'm sorry to hear of the lack of quality control in the newer VWs. I have always been a fan.

(P.S. You "Up-graded" when she survived the accident injury-free. Always a good sign.)


Civic is constantly the highest rated, as you know. If you need flashy, pimp it out from J.C.Whitney "glow light strips." :-)
 
We have a Passat in the family that's a great driving car- the problem has been with service at the dealership(s)- bad svc. at 2 of them.

If I wanted an oil filter wrench and rag left in the engine comparment, I could do it myself.

BTW, Jake, what's the scoop on your new icon? Paul Rever-ish/American.:thumbup:


Mike
 
Thank you kind sirs:)
What makes this a more difficult choice is that we LIKE the VW better. We know it's not a Honda. My God, nothing is. I'm pretty sure I could pee in a civic's gas tank and it would get 36mpp. My wife is a research fiend. She looks up and down and all around about what she buys. I married a smart cookie, thankfully:) We don't mind paying for "good" gas if that is what it takes. We have a great mech outfit about 6 miles away that my wife loves. She was looking at Subarus until she found out these guys don't work on them. Now that's a loyal customer;) My wife is also gets a check back quarterly for the miles she travels at work. We don't look at it as covering gas, but the 40 cents a mile goes a long way in maintenance issues with the cars.
Based on findings the '04 Jetta was one of the better years with none of them as great as the Hondas. Selection and price for the cars are not an issue. We have a row of dealers that span the better part of a mile, then stop, then contiune again for several acres. The guy we are working with for the Jetta is the same guy we bought the Civic from.
So, we will probably end up with the Civic. It is a great car, but I LIKE the Jetta better. I have a truck that burps and bumps and shimmies where ever it goes. It would be nice that once i got off work, I could sit in a comfortable car and go for a smooth rocket ride. However, i have a feeling my practical side will win out.

Jake
 
Volkswagon is working on a poor quality reputation right now.

Always, always, always check www.carsurvey.org .

Always remember that your very particular model of car will be very different than other versions of the same year and model of the same car. For instance, for many VWs, you can get a 1.8T OR a VR6 engine, with different drivetrains corresponding to each. One could be hypothetically very reliable for several year models, while the other could be terrible. These are important distinctions.

Audi and VW should now be viewed as the exact same car company, and in fact, produce some of the exact same cars. They're like Ford/Mercury/Lincoln, or Chevy/Pontiac/Cadillac.

If you do go with a VW, I must recommend the R32, which wasn't a bad performer, well, not by European car standards. I know not about its reliability.

In general, the best bet is to find cars that the company actually races. No, Ford does not actually race a Taurus in NASCAR. I'm talking about the real cars. The WRX/Evo in the rallies for instance. The Corvette in Le Mans. Cars that retain a great percentage of the original makeup in their race trim (the main difference is usually the switch to a sequential gearbox and full race tires. A lot of these races, the cars are surprisingly stock). I'm sure there are exceptions, but off hand, I can't think of any. If it is professionally raced with its original engine and chassis, you're probably going to find a very reliable, exceptionally performing car. This almost necessarily ensures you're not buying a luxury car, however, so this reasoning isn't universally sound.

The various models of Civics seem to have found a pretty good place in the family car reliability spectrum, which is actually fairly impressive, given that they're based on several different chassis and engines over the years, including different manufacturing plants, even one in Europe, I believe.

I see you have comments like "it's not as reliable as a Honda," which is a patently false statements. Car companies are not more reliable than another car company, unless you may be talking about stock market stability, etc. Only cars, and individual cars at that, are reliable. I suppose you can make broad statements if you actually buy maybe 90% of their cars every year and drive all of them hard, or are around people that do, but in the latter example, it's only valid if you also have friends with other cars so that you can validly compare.

As a company as a whole, I've been more impressed with Subaru than any other. There's a logical reason behind Subaru's incredible success. They use virtually the exact same engine and drivetrain accross the board. It's perfected. They took one decent design, worked out the bugs over the years (I assume, this was in the early 90s, I believe, but this was long before I was interested in Subaru, so I might be mistaken) and then applied it across their line. They seemed to have needed a beefier 5 speed in the WRX (non STi) lineup, however. But I propose that if these folks weren't doing 5000 RPM drag launches on their 4WD drivetrains, there would be many fewer problems....

I might suggest the upcoming Dodge Caliber SRT4. Dodge/Chrysler's reliability reputation has suffered far more greatly than VWs (which hasn't been toooooo severe), but this company is making a huge turnaround. They haven't regained my confidence yet, but even I must sit up and take notice when they're offering a 300 horsepower car for 21,000 dollars. Yes, yes, horsepower doesn't matter, it's true, but in lieu of actual performance numbers as the car doesn't exist yet, we must go on that. If it pulls 15s when it's released, I'll take it all back.
 
Ad Astra said:
We have a Passat in the family that's a great driving car- the problem has been with service at the dealership(s)- bad svc. at 2 of them.

If I wanted an oil filter wrench and rag left in the engine comparment, I could do it myself.

BTW, Jake, what's the scoop on your new icon? Paul Rever-ish/American.:thumbup:


Mike
Click to expand...

I have no idea what it is:) Kis posted it in his Experimentation thread, so i ran with it. I think it's cool. I have a feeling that my wife will more than once have to say, "What are you doing with my pantyhose tied around your face?..and what's that on your head? did you make a three cornered hat out of a beer box?...You're playing revolutionary again, aren't you? Outside!..That is an outside game...Get off the coffe table! You're going to break it....and put some pants on."

Jake
 
The 1.8T is a great motor. I had a 2001 GTi sold it last spring with 90-sum thousand miles on it. The 20V engine has won all sorts of awards as engine of the year and such. I would go Jetta no questions asked it has much more personality/style/pep than a Honda, but then again I think the GTi was my 5th VW :)
 
We do everything by 'Consumer Reports" and Passat was the best sedan that year (2000), even better than Camry, believe it or not.

___


Yeah, the "Evil Smiley" icon just wasn't working- it just wasn't *evil enough* for you. As a patriot, I'm sure you're planning something diabolical against our country's foes.


Evil Mike "Mad Asstra"
 
I bought a 1976 Rabbit and it was, bar none, the worst car that I have ever owned. The carburetor went out on me five times within the first 50,000 miles and I had paid the dealer to rebuild it the first four times. When it went out the fifth time, they told me that I needed to replace it and that it would be about $750, please. And that was in 1982. I called EPA and asked them about the supposed 55,000 mile warranty on emissions related items in the car and was told that VW had won a suit against the EPA that said that the car had to have all repair work to those systems done by VW employees in order for the warranty to be enforceable. In other words, I had to send my car back to Germany for any work to be done to it! The "VW Factory-trained Mechanics" at the dealership weren't sufficient!

At this point, a sign went on in my mind that says, "Don't buy a product from a company that won't back its products." I will NEVER, EVER, buy another VW as long as I live, no matter how desireable the car may seem. The company does not stand behind what it sells. It is that simple.
 
Why are you limiting yourself to one dealer when you have a mile+ of them? or am I reading that wrong?
 
shappa said:
Why are you limiting yourself to one dealer when you have a mile+ of them? or am I reading that wrong?
Click to expand...

I probably didn't make it clear enough, that my wife and I have been shopping for the better part of two weeks (a little less). We have been all over the place. One dealership I will not go to. I tried them the first time around. They tried to talk me into a car that was out of my budget (ya know, because my wife and I are young and stupid:rolleyes: :mad: ) When I told the guy that I did not want to eat processed food out of box in order afford a car, he kind of flipped out and said (roughly joking) that he didn't want to hear it because he and wife were on a tight budget sending their kids to school...How is that my problem? I know that he doesn't represent the dealership as a whole, but they hired the idiot. The other places have not had what we wanted in our price range. My wife has a very select few cars that she knows we can afford, will fit us, etc.
We have narrowed it down to three cars (unless some new ones roll out today) at three dealerships. The Jetta is being sold by the guy that sold us our Civic. He was very nice, seemed to know what he was talking about, and knows i want bottom line pricing without dickering. If we pass on the Jetta, I hope he can find us something else. I would like to do business with him again.
We'll see. Tonight is round two of test drives, followed by round three tomorrow, followed by a purchase on Monday.

I really do appreciate all of your input, gentlemen. I trust the real world experience that you guys have over any mag.

jake
 
I looked up the carsurvey reports here

http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Volkswagen_Jetta_2004.html

They're pretty abysmal. This has a high percentage likelyhood of ending with you in a bad mood.

For what it's worth, and this means a lot coming from me, I do think it's fairly attractive, at least, by family car standards. There's always been a nice understated completeness to the designs.

The newer GTI VR6s appear to be much, much more reliable than their 1.8 counterparts. Also, I think they're much more attractive and practical, but that's just me.
 
Hi Steely:

My parents always owned german cars and loved them. One of my vehicles is a honda and it is great.

Buy whichever makes you guys happy. Both makes are fine.

My .02.

But I think you should get a Pinzgauer 710M. It's swiss, which is sort of german. Mine was fantastic.
 
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