Question for Yvsa and others with fusions

[stevomiller]

Uncle,

I had an anterior/posterior fusion of my L5/S1 two weeks ago. When I was in post op, pre-morphine, my original symptoms of back pain and pain in my right leg were already gone. However, I now have quite a bit of pain in my left leg and numbness in my left foot. The surgeon said that it is due to all of the rooting around they had to do (I had pretty bad stenosis that they had to carve out around both sciatic nerves, plus removal of the disc), and that the nerves are aggravated and there is internal swelling. They said that this should correct itself. I have two questions:

How long do you think these symptoms will last, and did you find anything that helped with these types of symptoms (herbs, diet,etc....). I am having a hell of a time sleeping at night at this point. I don't see the surgeon again for about two weeks, but if it is still like this I am considering asking for the cortisone/lidocane epidural to calm it down. What do you think?

Thanks to Yvsa and anyone else that might have experience,
Stevo

 

[Wolf_1989]

My wife had a fusion in november 2006 and she is still experiencing a little sciatic pain.

Before she had the surgery though, she was barely able to walk.

 

[Yvsa]

Uncle,

I had an anterior/posterior fusion of my L5/S1 two weeks ago. When I was in post op, pre-morphine, my original symptoms of back pain and pain in my right leg were already gone. However, I now have quite a bit of pain in my left leg and numbness in my left foot.
The surgeon said that it is due to all of the rooting around they had to do (I had pretty bad stenosis that they had to carve out around both sciatic nerves, plus removal of the disc), and that the nerves are aggravated and there is internal swelling.
They said that this should correct itself. I have two questions:

How long do you think these symptoms will last, and did you find anything that helped with these types of symptoms (herbs, diet,etc....). I am having a hell of a time sleeping at night at this point. I don't see the surgeon again for about two weeks, but if it is still like this I am considering asking for the cortisone/lidocane epidural to calm it down. What do you think?

Thanks to Yvsa and anyone else that might have experience,
Stevo

Aho Uwinv, first of all I'm damned sorry too hear you've had to undergo such a surgery!
Second I wish I had a ready answer for you, trouble is that everyone is different and that includes their rate of healing. Also pain relief is always the Drs' prerogative and it sounds as if your Dr. is open to keeping you reasonably comfortable, which is a big plus!:thumbup:

I also had quite a bit of pain after my L-5/S-I surgery last June and I went to my PMP = Pain Management Physician a short time after surgery for the cortisone/lidocane injection into the SI joint and it helped me get over the hump so to speak so I'd say, "Go for it!"

There are some very important things to stay strictly away from.... any sort of NSAID and any form of Tobacco!
An NSAID is a "Non-Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drug, if you didn't know, which means Aspirin, Ibuprofen, and Aleve, can't recall the name of the drug since it went generic.
Any NSAID or Tobacco use will keep the bones from fusing and believe me no one wants a failed fusion! :grumpy:

A few of bags of cheap frozen peas so that you can keep rotated and cold can work wonders for back pain and swelling from inflammation although some folks can't stand the intense cold, be sure and wrap them in a towel so you don't freeze yourself.
I take Melatonin too help me sleep, generally 10 mgs before bedtime but the last couple of nights I've been taking 15 mgs as we've been trying to wean me off Ambein, which makes me sleepy way late in the mornings even if I take it at 9:00 p.m. and it has been working well I'm happy to say.

As to the time it takes to recover.... Steve sadly to say it depends on each individual and how much the Dr. fooled around with your nerves as they tend to be easy to make really cranky.
I had an emergency surgery to fuse my neck vertebrate last August and then again in October because the hardware failed.
I was in one helluva shape and was pretty scared there for a while. My nerves were so agitated from being compressed because of a collapsed disc and bone spurs pressing on my spinal cord that I was getting where I couldn't keep my balance as well as being incontinent.
My lower arms, hands, and fingers on both hands were both numb and tingly, I had to start eating with a spoon and holding it like a three year old because I couldn't control my movements very well at all.
The surgery in October has succeeded in fusing my cervical area between C-3 and C-7 and I am happy to say I have all of my feeling back in my left arm, hand, and fingers as well as in my right arm and hand. My right fingers still have some stiffness, numbness,(and a wee bit of tingling now and then.) At least they have recovered enough so that I can hold a fork like an adult and Great Joy I'm getting to where I can feel the tone holes in most of my ndn Flutes even though I'm going to need to practice and practice a great deal if I'm to ever get back to the degree of playing I once had.
My neurosurgeon says it can take up to a year for badly jangled nerves to heal themselves so I still have a lot of hope.:thumbup:

Hope all that was of some use to you Uwinv.

 

[stevomiller]

Thank you for the advice and sharing your experiences. It is much appreciated. As you can tell from what time I am posting I am NOT sleeping Thank you also for the information about NSAIDS, as I was NOT told this or was too whacked on morphine to remember.

Gonna try and lay down again
Steve

 

[stevomiller]

Uncle, pre-surgery I was not able to use ice on my back as it always caused severe muscle spasms so I hadn't tried it since. After your reply I went and got my ice pack and tried it out on the posterior surgery site. It didn't cause spasms and seemed to give some relief, especially when combined with using a heating pad on my leg.

Thanks again guys for the information and encouragement.

Steve

 

[Yvsa]

Uncle, pre-surgery I was not able to use ice on my back as it always caused severe muscle spasms so I hadn't tried it since. After your reply I went and got my ice pack and tried it out on the posterior surgery site. It didn't cause spasms and seemed to give some relief, especially when combined with using a heating pad on my leg.

Thanks again guys for the information and encouragement.

Steve

Uwinv I'm glad that the ice pack was of some help to you.
Did you manage to get any sleep at all?

Steve having had a long relationship with pain and trying to sleep I use a technique I've tried to develop over the years with some small success.
It's a form of meditation where I try to become one with the pain and relax into it. By trying to do so I go deep within myself and as I try to relax into the pain I find the deeper I'm able to go. This is the first time I've tried to put it in words instead of talking someone through the steps, helping them to be one with the pain so that it becomes part of you and therefore while it may still hurt it doesn't matter if it does, and I'm finding it's damned hard to do. And besides that it sounds crazy as hell too boot.
All I know is that the technique works for me, sometimes with greater success than others.
It does require a great deal of concentration, which is why I've only been able too use it as an aid to sleep.
There are stories of the Old Ones being able to separate their mind's, consciousness, awareness, or whatever so that even when in obvious great pain they were still able to carry on with their daily lives. All I know is if the old stories are true the Old Ones lived in a different state of consciousness or something than we are able to today!

I'm concerned that your Dr. didn't supply you with either an effective pain reliever or one proper for the amount of pain you would probably have after going home from the hospital like my Dr. always has.
My neurosurgeon has always given me a script for either Lortab, Percoset, or something that was adequate for the pain I was apt to have.
And after a few back surgeries when the pain just wouldn't quit he sent me over to a Pain Clinic and transfered my pain management care to the head doctor there.
And Pain Management of Tulsa has taken very good care of me even if there have been a few times I wished they could've been a little quicker but a lot of that is my own fault for not letting them know how much my pain had increased soon enough.:grumpy:

And if you need to talk more personally my email is always open.

 

[stevomiller]

Thanks again Uncle. I understand about being one with the pain, instead of fighting it. I have actually been able to do this a few times, other times I didn't have success. My wife actually taught me these same techniques: she learned it thru having 2 of our kids without meds and very long labors.

The surgeon sent me home with Vicodin, which works most of the time. Part of the problem is that it was plugging me up so bad that I reduced the amount that I was taking.I will discuss with him about trying some of the others to see if they either work on the pain better or perhaps don't cause the other problem quite so bad.

I did actually sleep better last night. I ended up getting 2 hours in one block, was up for a few hours, then slept about 3.5 more. Even before surgery I didn't sleep much, so this is good for me.

Today was a better day until just recently. My family came to visit and said that I am looking better than I did pre-surgery, which is pretty good since it has only been two weeks. I think that I am impatient and forget that recovery will be an up and down process. I had a few days where I felt really good and I think that it spoiled the way that I was looking at things. The reality is that they dug a 3 inch hole in my gut, a 3 inch hole in my back, dug out a dried up ruptured disc, ground on the bones, and put a bunch of hardware in me. I'm nuts to think that it will be all rosie so soon.

Back to reality, and thanks again.
Steve

 

[Yvsa]

Thanks again Uncle. I understand about being one with the pain, instead of fighting it. I have actually been able to do this a few times, other times I didn't have success. My wife actually taught me these same techniques: she learned it thru having 2 of our kids without meds and very long labors.

Keep trying Uwinv. The more you do it the easier it is too do. When I start trying to center myself to go deep within I imagine myself sinking and absorbing the pain but what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.

The surgeon sent me home with Vicodin, which works most of the time. Part of the problem is that it was plugging me up so bad that I reduced the amount that I was taking.I will discuss with him about trying some of the others to see if they either work on the pain better or perhaps don't cause the other problem quite so bad.

Uwinv, you have email....

I did actually sleep better last night. I ended up getting 2 hours in one block, was up for a few hours, then slept about 3.5 more. Even before surgery I didn't sleep much, so this is good for me.

Today was a better day until just recently. My family came to visit and said that I am looking better than I did pre-surgery, which is pretty good since it has only been two weeks. I think that I am impatient and forget that recovery will be an up and down process. I had a few days where I felt really good and I think that it spoiled the way that I was looking at things. The reality is that they dug a 3 inch hole in my gut, a 3 inch hole in my back, dug out a dried up ruptured disc, ground on the bones, and put a bunch of hardware in me. I'm nuts to think that it will be all rosie so soon.

Back to reality, and thanks again.
Steve

Good, I'm glad you were able to get at least a little sleep last night.:thumbup:
It wasn't long after my first back surgery that it got so that I couldn't sleep on the custom made mattress I had made before my surgery knowing I wouldn't be able to manage a full flotation water bed ever again. Then we tried an air mattress and it didn't work all that long either so we went back and had Don make us another custom mattress and we let him talk us out of the Tempurpedic memory foam and yet again it wasn't long before I couldn't sleep on it either. Finally we went down to a Sleep Center store and tried one of their beds even though an air mattress had failed me before.
Since I wasn't about to pay their exhorbant price for the one we wanted I started checking online and found a very comparable mattress set with a pillow top, and again I bought it and it wasn't long before I couldn't sleep on it either.
I still wasn't convinced the Tempurpedic foam wasn't for us so once again I went online and found a 4 inch queen sized Tempurpedic foam pad very reasonable and bought it.
It turned out to be the best combo I had found but when I started having so much pain before the L-5/S-1 fusion I started sleeping in my recliner and later went to our couch where I've been sleeping pretty good ever since until lately.
And now with the reduced pain from having the pain pump we're going to go back to our bed that everyone who has slept on says, "It's the most comfortable bed they have ever slept on in their life!" when our company leaves in the next week or two.
I am very hopeful of it sleeping even better than it did right after we put the memory foam on it.
Our individual air mattresses doesn't have the gauges that the Select Comfort beds have but it's easy to either increase or decrease the hardness to your own comfort zone just by feel so they aren't needed anyway.

And I wrote all of that to encourage you to try out different places in your house to sleep. You might get a few hours on one surface and then switch to another one for another few hours sleep.

And you're right about it taking a while for you to get over the surgery. All mine have been posterior and they have been bad enough. I can't begin to imagine both a posterior and an anterior surgery on the same place at the same time!
But that method is supposed to be superior than just going in from one side, you must've been really messed up for your doctor to decide on going that route!

 

[new]

i was involved in an accident and had some compression fractures in my spine....they sent me home with vicodin...


my only advice is to be very careful with vicodin and other hydrocodone based painkillers.....they are very addictive and you might get dependent on them before you even realize it.....


just be careful with them....

 

[stevomiller]

Uwinv, you have email....


Thanks! I appreciate that and replied.



And you're right about it taking a while for you to get over the surgery. All mine have been posterior and they have been bad enough. I can't begin to imagine both a posterior and an anterior surgery on the same place at the same time!
But that method is supposed to be superior than just going in from one side, you must've been really messed up for your doctor to decide on going that route!

The disc was completely desicated, but when it ruptured it left a piece that was about a half inch wide and an inch long sticking out between the vertebrae. I also had considerable bone spurs/narrowing of the points where the nerves exited the spine which contributed to the compression. There were a few times that I had lost bladder control, and also weakness on top of the pain. I used to force my way thru the pain to do ab and back exercises, and I could feel the bone on bone. The doc said that if I wasn't strong that it would be very unstable (which I had already experienced). Some of my symptoms were contraindicated also, so they really wanted to see what was going on. Also, since I am fairly young (41 today ) and was still pretty fit they said that this was the best long term solution. The back incision is a piece of cake and I barely notice already, the stomach is another story.

I too wander the house and sleep for a while wherever is comfortable, some on the couch, some on the bed, some in the gravity chair. Seems to be the way to go :thumbup:

And New, I know of what you speak. I have fought this injury for over ten years so I am not new to the pills. I have kicked them before myself, puking, the runs and shaking being a wonderful bonus.

Adios,
Steve