Question of Usual Suspects From Newbie

Willie Boy · Jun 6, 2001

I have a sensitive questions to ask of the "Choir." I know those who participate in the Emerson forum are Emerson fans. As the owner of several REKAT's, I am a regular visitor to the REKAT forum and if product loyalty were a virtue, REKAT fans would be saints. I hope I can get some objective responses to my question from the usual suspects. Here goes. Have those who have had experience with Emerson's folders been pleased with their quality. Are the blades centered between the liners? Do the locks work reliably? Do the locks wear quickly? Are they symetrically ground....those that should be? Is vertical or horizontal blade present? You get the idea. I am considering a Commander but would like to be sure I would be buying a knife that can be used without worrying about the knife developing problems like those listed above.

Feel free emailing a response if you are uncomfortable doing so on the forum.

Willlieboy@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ken Cook · Jun 6, 2001

Hmmm, A Sifu is high on my list of "gotta-have-its" right now, but then again, so is money!

As to the Commander, buy one. You'll love it.

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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
MOLON LABE!

John Hollister · Jun 6, 2001

Are the blades centered between the liners?

Honestly, since 2000, more often then not the production knives are not perfectly centered. But in 99% of cases, it's not a functional issue. But there again, I just saw an ad on other high end production knives that were not centered, so I don't feel to bad.

Do the locks work reliably?

I buy more EKI products then the "average" person does. I have yet to have any kind of lock failure with an EKI product. This coming from someone that has had rolling lock knives collapse on his hand and cut him twice, once fairly bad.

Do the locks wear quickly?

Not in my experience.

Are they symetrically ground....those that should be?

Yeh, they are. The "A" versions are not sharpened symmetrical. Even the "A" ("V" Ground" models) are still sharpened chisel style.

Is vertical or horizontal blade present?

Nope. One can loosen the pivot too much and cause side to side play, but when tweaked properly, you can get lightning speed and solid lock up.

Hope that helps

John

CH · Jun 6, 2001

My '99 Emerson CQC7B is the best folder I have in terms of quality, fit and finish, and workmanship. Absolutely perfect as far as I can tell.
I would not hesitate to buy a new Emerson, provided that they have good customer service. I've never had to use it so I have no knowledge on their warranty dept.

dwenslen · Jun 6, 2001

I think some people experienced floppy blades and off center lock ups due to loosening the pivots too much. just a guess. Get one, you'll love it, and if you don't think it's perfect, EKI will make it right.
cheers,
DWE

Kampfjaeger · Jun 6, 2001

I recently purchased a Commander direct from EKI. When it arrived, the blade sat slightly off center. Less than two minutes of "tweaking" got everything into fighting trim. It is a very well made knife. If I had not been apprised of the fact that this is a fairly common "feature

" of Emerson knives, I might have been a bit unhappy. However, I had heard enough on the forum to know how to handle the problem. I couldn't be happier with the knife. As for the liner lock, it seats with a vengeance. I honestly don't see it failing. Spine whacks, etc have done nothing to loosen it. It certainly boosted my confidence in the knife. If you purchase one, I'm certain that you will not be disappointed. My only real misgiving was that my box arrived only mildly crushed.

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Integritas

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fq55 · Jun 6, 2001

Earlier this week I got a 2000 plain satin finished Commander which is my second one. I sold the other one. This one has a different pivot pin that is flat on the clip side, and it doesn't seem to come lose like my older one. There is some blade rubbing on the left liner. This only happens when I do left handed openings. It doesn't bother me because I have other plans for my Commander.

BTW this knife came in a pretty brand-spanking new box.
Frank Q.

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"The greatest of faults, I should say, is to be conscious of none."
Thomas Carlyle

rdangerer · Jun 6, 2001

I am not a Usual Suspect, nor do I play one on TV.

But I do own a Mach-1. Used to own a Specwar.

Mach-1 blade was pretty off center when I bought it used (very lightly used that is). The problem was with the lack of tension/force put on the blade by the secondary ball detent (there are indeed two) on the non-lock side. A few tries at tensioning this spring (which requires full disassembly) yielded acceptable results and the blade is centered, but does rub a bit nearer the tip if you put some pressure on it while thumbing it open.

Lockup is decent, you can put a bit more tension on the liner yourself, I did, that helped.

I had (and sold) a ~1998 Specwar that locked up waaay too tight even from just thumbing (and not flicking) it open. Bought mail order. I often had to use a screwdriver or other knife blade to pry/pop the liner loose. After literally what had to amount to over a thousand hand cycles, the face of the lock and tang were such that it locked up well and would unlock normally, with normal thumb pressure.

No problems with up/down play. The Mach-1 has a touch of side-to-side when the pivot screw is set for fairly easy (but not loose) opening. I'll probably Lock-Tite (medium strength) the pivot screw when I get it set up about right.

The Specwar was good in this regard.

[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 06-06-2001).]

SALTY · Jun 6, 2001

I'm not trying to start any flames here, just trying to answer your question honestly.

I flinching, but here I go.

Emerson knives have great designs. They use quality, state of the proven art materials. They have reliable and durable construction and are suitable for hard use.

Do they have the best fit and finish for the money? No.

Do they have the most over designed (sometimes for the market) dimensions? No.

Are they the best value in terms of utility for the money? No.

Are they great knives with a proven track record of adverse condition functionality? Yes.

Do they have, as an ancillary addition to the raw product, a mystique (how's the spelling now Don?) of heritage and support? Absofriggintively!

Does all of this mean that they are the best bang for the buck? No.

Does this mean that any self respecting knife knut should own at least one? Yes!

BTW, the wave is cooool!The opinions stated herein are not necessarily those of any person, living or dead and the reader is expressly advised to avail him/herself to the competent counsel of an attorney at law (licensed in the subject jurisdiction) a doctor, accountant, metalurgist, engineer, knife expert, knife maker, knife sharpener, knife knut, chiropractor, eye doctor, barber, manicurist and bartender. Reader assumes all risks involved, either direct or ancillary, intended or incidental, to the reliance upon the aforementioned. Reading this post shall constitute express waiver of any and all rights, rights of claim, rights to claim, right of way or right handedness including, but not necessarily limited to, equipment value, loss of value, loss of use/utility, personal, corporate or other associations, entities or groups be they sanctioned or otherwise, loss of consortium, affection or other intangible benefits in any fashion related, directly or incidentally to the reliance upon the opinions contained, conveyed, implied, construed or otherwise gleaned herefrom. Reader expressly indemnifies and shall save harmless from any and all claims, threats of claims or thoughts of claims including reasonable attorneys fees, experts fees, costs of litigation, costs of threatened or contemplated litigation or the thoughts of possible litigation, including, by way of expresison and not by way of limitation administrative, formal, informal, BYOB, catered or other affairs, proceedings or situations. Any disputes arising out of the subject matter of this post shall be subject to the in-personam jurisdiction and construed under the laws of the Conch Republic. If any provision of this disclaimer is deemed, held or otherwise found to be uneforceable, illegal, offensive or annoying, same shall be of no cause or effect.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 06-06-2001).]

Hello, spell check anytime soon??????

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Aphthartos · Jun 6, 2001

I'm probably not a usual suspect, and I say probably only because I'm not entirely sure what they mean by it

But I own a CQC7B with wave, I've had the same problem with side to side blade play when the pivot loosens, but if it comes loose while you don't have access to a tool set, all you really need is your thumbnail to tighten it up properly and you're all set. I've handled dozens of Emersons--I'm a real crazy bastid about fit and finish and I've been happy with all of them. The lock works beautifully, locks up tight but not TOO tight. Blade's PERFECTLY(and I do mean PERFECTLY) centered in the handle. The G-10 does stick out just the SLIGHTEST bit farther than the liners(the opposite of the usual problem, from my understanding) but I kinda like that, it's comfortable. The knife overall is just a beast, I love it. I plan on getting a commander, but I gotta fulfill my other knife desires in order

Also, the wave is just about the coolest thing put on a knife since a thumb disc/hole/stud, etc. I picked up a Tactical Knives mag on my vacation in Scottsdale, AZ recently, saw their review of the production Commander /w Wave and immediately got on the laptop and looked for one on the net. As soon as I got back from vacation I ordered the CQC7 /w wave

crocodile · Jun 7, 2001

oh my god i'm in the lawyers forum

SALTY · Jun 7, 2001

Originally posted by crocodile:
oh my god i'm in the lawyers forum

Usual Suspects should always have a lawyer or three handy; don't you think?

rdangerer · Jun 7, 2001

Originally posted by Willie Boy:
Have those who have had experience with Emerson's folders been pleased with their quality. Willlieboy@hotmail.com

Couple more thoughts, and opinions, attempts at honesty and as objective as I can be ... and I'm wearing Nomex.

Quality. Can be viewed in many ways.

I will add that if you are looking for good fit & finish of the various pieces/parts aside from the lockup, probably look elsewhere in general.

Fit/Finish issues:
1. the screws & clips are notorious for shedding their "black coating" with little provocation and with only time and casual handling. I can't believe Emerson hasn't figured out how to do this right yet. It makes them look worn quickly. Many people don't care about this. On a defensive folder, I overlook this pretty much since I don't carry my Mach-I daily.

2. The liners look like they are cut out very quickly on a bandsaw and just barely cleaned up with a grinding belt or wire wheel...the edges are not rough to the touch such that they snag or abrade, just rough looking, wavy... crude looking compared to almost any other liner lock I've handled really (I'm sure there are worse out there, none come to mind). Again, for a defensive folder, it does not affect performance, just looks crude.

3. My Mach-I was very obviously hand sharpened. The final edge was fairly consistently applied at say 35-40 degrees, but was over probably 45 degrees to maybe 50 degrees right at the tip, very steep, obviously done by hand and not very well. I reprofiled the whole cutting edge to 30 degrees on a Lansky which took some time, but there is no realistic way to grind enough metal off near the tip to get to 30 degrees...it would hose up the whole profile in that area...would take off too much metal.

Opinions on Design issues with Mach-I:
1. The chisel grind is, as always, and for purely aesthetic reasons according to my read of Emerson's web page, on the wrong side of the knife for right-handed utility use. That is a shame, as it keeps me from carrying the Mach-I more often (I carry it rarely actually).

2. The pocket clip is mounted such that far too much knife sticks out of your pocket, nearly an inch. The knife uses the standard, one-design-fits-all Emerson clip (I believe), when IMHO they should have designed a custom clip for this handle shape. One could argue the 1" protrusion makes it easier to retrieve the knife, buy IMO this is a solution to a non-existent problem for me. One could argue this clip keeps price down, and that is probably true, by how much I dunno, a dollar or two?

3. Blade grind is very stout, all the way to the tip, and good thing given my interpretation of the design goals.

4. Handle shape is great. Wouldn't mind having a wave.
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I consider my Mach-I a purely defensive folder, one that I carry only when I'm headed downtown, into the city, into or knowingly across a bad neighborhood (rare).

And for a defensive folder 4" and under, I think it is a very good knife, mostly because the blade grind is stout all the way to the tip, and the handle design provides for a very deep index finger cutout, and therefore forms more of a guard than you can find on most any folder sold these days.

The blade grind stoutness & handle design are the two reasons why I bought the Mach-I and overlook the other issues for my stated purpose.

[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 06-07-2001).]

Willie Boy · Jun 7, 2001

Boy, great responses from everyone. I really appreciate it. The responses that blade rubs on the liner are troubling.

I have some Benchmade pieces which will become loose from side to side if I set them up for really rapid opening, but that can be corrected. Other knives I have had though, seem to be beyond correction. The blades are not centered between the liners and no amount of adjustment seems to correct the problem. As a thoroughly anal person, I cannot accept this, especially on a piece costing $100-$200.

Anyway, thanks again for your response.

Willieboy

malazo · Jun 7, 2001

Hey Willie Boy!

If these posts trouble you, go to the store and hand pick an Emerson. Chances are that if you find one that suits you in terms of blade positioning, etc., you shouldn't have a problem with it moving.

just my 2 pesos