Question on Ammo maker

they make just about the hottest rounds available.

if you plan to shoot buffalo bore, be sure to confirm your firearm can handle their stuff.
 
Thanks Mori. I was particularly interested in their standard pressure .38 SPL. The sidearm is a S&W Model 37, so no +P rounds. Any experience or suggestions on this?
 
i cant see spending over $1 a round unless you really want the high pressure stuff.

maybe a winchester silver tip or similar?
 
I carry the wadcutter in .38. great round for my J-Frame. Shoots great.
 
Some question the loads as they are not members of SAAMI. I've heard very favorable results with the 35 Rem load !
 
Ah, the slayer of Clyde Barker and his lovely bride!

One of these days I'm going to have to get a 35 Rem, just for the nostalgic value, perhaps even a Remington model 8!
 
Thanks for the answers Mori and Richard. I've been shooting 158 gr. LRN and 130 gr. FMJ for practice (they are very inexpensive), and I have a box of Win Silver Tips for carry use. I was looking for an advantage, load-wise, since I can't push +P down the pipe. I don't mind $ 1 per round for carry, even knowing I'll have to shoot a few boxes to get the feel and check the placement of the load.

Any other suggestions for a CC round?
 
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Gello testing on the Buffalo Bore 20C/20 ( 158gr. very soft lead cast, SWC-HC gas checked bullet) resulting in a 5 round average penetration of 11.8 inches and an average expansion of .58 inches. Very respectable for a non +P round. If I were going to limit myself to a non +P round i wouldn't hesitate to carry this ammo.

MORIMOTOM said:
i cant see spending over $1 a round unless you really want the high pressure stuff.

maybe a winchester silver tip or similar?
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Personally I place the value of my life and the values of my family's lives much higher than $1.00. If the best carry ammo cost $100.00* a round I would be walking around with a couple thousand dollars worth of ammo in my pockets. Just remember there ain't no magic bullets


*This is a very real possibility when Nobama takes office btw.
 
Robert H, the 35 Rem has long been a popular deer and black bear cartridge in NY and nearby states. The weirdest of the guns is the tiny Rem 14 and 141.The first time I saw one I thought it was a toy ! And that weird tube magazine that will take pointed bullets !
 
Absintheur said:
Gello testing on the Buffalo Bore 20C/20 ( 158gr. very soft lead cast, SWC-HC gas checked bullet) resulting in a 5 round average penetration of 11.8 inches and an average expansion of .58 inches. Very respectable for a non +P round. If I were going to limit myself to a non +P round i wouldn't hesitate to carry this ammo.



Personally I place the value of my life and the values of my family's lives much higher than $1.00. If the best carry ammo cost $100.00* a round I would be walking around with a couple thousand dollars worth of ammo in my pockets. Just remember there ain't no magic bullets


*This is a very real possibility when Nobama takes office btw.
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Thanks for this info! Where did you find the ballistics info? If a one dollar bullet will give me an advantage, even a slight one, over one costing 26 cents, I'll pay it!
 
Absintheur said:
Personally I place the value of my life and the values of my family's lives much higher than $1.00. If the best carry ammo cost $100.00* a round I would be walking around with a couple thousand dollars worth of ammo in my pockets. Just remember there ain't no magic bullets


*This is a very real possibility when Nobama takes office btw.
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you're completely missing my point.

the value is genuine only if the round is a improvement over readily available factory rounds.

since buffalo bore is known for very high pressure, very expensive, rounds, their standard pressure .38 seems pricey. and since his revolver cant take a +p, what is the point of paying extra for a bullet that isnt better?


the hottest round isnt always the best round, and gelatine testing is only one small aspect of ballistic efficiency.
 
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SPXTrader said:
Thanks for this info! Where did you find the ballistics info? If a one dollar bullet will give me an advantage, even a slight one, over one costing 26 cents, I'll pay it!
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I am fortunate enough to be invited to do the testing at times with Evan Marshall and others. We use Vyse gelatin mix to FBI protocols and always with at least 2 layers of heavy denim. Distance is 10-15 feet, this allows room for a chrono. Last time I was up we shot about 16 150lb blocks of gello...the pigs were very happy!

I don't think a 158 soft lead at 850 is a "very high pressure" round, matter of fact is is not a +P load. The 20C/20 is a standard pressure load and while ballistics testing isn't the tell all standard the authorities take dim view of human testing of ammunition. We do what we can with what we have.
 
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Thanks Absintheur. Very interesting and informative. Of the 3 rounds they offer, which would you recommend for SD application? I have also been told that for SD in this sidearm, 5 +P's wouldn't be a big problem. Practice would be with standard pressure rounds. I've read that the snubbie Smiths were designed for 158 grain bullets. Do agree or disagree with these statements and why?
 
I've been carrying the standard pressure 158 grain SWC-HC Buffalo Bore for a while in my j frames. The load shoots to POA from my Model 38 and Model 60. It is soft cast lead (I figure around an 8 brinell hardness or less) and gas checked so doesn't lead the bore at all. Although Tim Sundles says it doesn't exceed standard pressure levels, it is a real handful in a j frame...trust me.

An option is the Speer Law Enforcement 125 grain Gold Dot in .38 Special, it is available in a standard pressure load. Should be able to find it for about $23 a box (50). It won't meet the FBI protocol for penetration though.

The brassfetcher website has ballistic gelatin tests of most .38 Special loads. Very interesting.
 
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MORIMOTOM said:
i cant see spending over $1 a round unless you really want the high pressure stuff.

maybe a winchester silver tip or similar?
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Reload - you can always match or better the load and it is a hell of a lot cheaper. That way you can tailor load and get exactly what you want.
 
SPXTrader said:
Thanks Absintheur. Very interesting and informative. Of the 3 rounds they offer, which would you recommend for SD application? I have also been told that for SD in this sidearm, 5 +P's wouldn't be a big problem. Practice would be with standard pressure rounds. I've read that the snubbie Smiths were designed for 158 grain bullets. Do agree or disagree with these statements and why?
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Personally I would carry CorBon DPX in it, that is what I carry in my Detective Special and S&W Model 12. If you go with the Buffalo I would get the 20C/20 round.

158 was the standard bullet weight for the 38 Special for many years in all models of revolvers. So it doesn't surprise me sights and such were developed around that load.
 
Absintheur said:
II don't think a 158 soft lead at 850 is a "very high pressure" round, matter of fact is is not a +P load. The 20C/20 is a standard pressure load and while ballistics testing isn't the tell all standard the authorities take dim view of human testing of ammunition. We do what we can with what we have.
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that is my whole point. the buffalo bore .38 is not a high pressure round. buffalo bore specializes in high pressure rounds.

why pay buffalo bore prices when one can get the same performance from other manufactures at half the cost?


i think you are not really reading my posts.
 
Mark G said:
Reload - you can always match or better the load and it is a hell of a lot cheaper. That way you can tailor load and get exactly what you want.
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reloading is a great idea if you have the start up costs and will shoot enough rounds to make it worth your while.

this is not the case for most shooters.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
that is my whole point. the buffalo bore .38 is not a high pressure round. buffalo bore specializes in high pressure rounds.

why pay buffalo bore prices when one can get the same performance from other manufactures at half the cost?


i think you are not really reading my posts.
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I am reading them but you need to put in information rather than just saying things like "the same performance from other manufacturers". Who are these other manufacturers? Where is the data on the performance of their ammunition? Simply saying you can get as good from someone else cheaper without telling us who and where is a non-supported argument.

Bullets are quite often a proprietary design. Just because another company makes bullet in the same weight and the same general design such as a 158gr SWC HC does not mean the bullets are of equal quality. That would be akin to saying a mass produced knife is equal in quality to a custom made knife by an accredited smith.

Buffalo Bore does make high pressure hunting ammunition and they make standard pressure ammunition as well. What is the difference between the two? A few pennies worth of powder. Everything else is basically the same. The cost of R&D for the standard pressure ammunition is the same as is the cost of manufacturing and the cost of insurance. This is why the rounds are similar in cost, the addition a few grains of powder don't really make a difference. Again to compare to knives again...if a one knife was an 1/4 inch shorter than an identical model from the same custom maker should it cost half the price? Of course not, that extra 1/4 inch did not cost that much more to make.

As I stated before there are no magic bullets but there are bullets custom designed to work better in specific firearms. The extremely soft lead in the 20C/20 load was designed to perform well at the lower velocities you get from the snub nosed (2") firearms. Most companies don't cater to specific small markets, most use the same bullet for all barrel lengths regardless of the firearm it will be shot in. Yes custom or semi-custom does cost, if ,through testing, the increase in price seems justified there is no reason not to pay if when you are talking about the welfare of yourself and loved ones.
 
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