Question on angle and finish

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frc505

Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
847
Hey All,

I have a question about angle and finish
On having my knives professionally sharpened
So I would like opinions on what everyone
Thinks is the best angle on a edge reprofile
And finish 600 grit,800 grit 1000 grit or mirror?
The knives in question are a spyderco PM2
In S30V and a ZT 0560 in ELMAX...THANKS
for your time

Frank
 
*Your intended use aside*, it's mostly cosmetic how the bevel is finished. Also depending how wide of a bevel pleases your eye aesthetically. Some like a wider sparkly bevel, some likes slim satin factory finish.
I won't go into "toothy" and "refined" edge argument because to most of us, super sharp is.... super sharp and both will give you that.

Spyderco PM2 are pretty much dead on at 15 degrees per side (dps) and most ZT are 20 dps.

Spyderco at 15 dps will still yield a thin edge bevel and I personally do not feel you should go lower for day to day use but can be done

ZT on the other hand, you will get a too wide of an edge bevel if you try to put 15dps edge on it and at the heel of the blade you will have a really wide bevel at the end because of the gradual plunge line.


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Really thinness behind the bevel is SUUUUUPER important ! ! !

I had a Manix that was 15 per side that wouldn't cut sheeeeet and would dull right away because it was 30 thou behind the edge. I have two other knives of "lesser steel" that are the same bevel but MUCH thinner behind the bevels, on the order of 15 thou or less , a Gayle Bradley and a Griptillian and those dudes will cut and cut and cut for days . . . just made the Manix look like a knife out of a gum ball machine. I had the Manix tested by Spyderco and they confirmed the hardness and edge geometry were as designed / factory perfect. Too thick though, much, much too thick. Suuuuuuuucked !

PS: oh and polished . . . all the way . . . I keep trying to like toothy but I just hate the way they feel and handle in the cut . . . for what I do anyway. Miny saws . . . I supose they are good for certain things . . . I'm just a push cuttin' fool . . . what can I say . . . so polished . . . all the way.
 
OK so it seems to me 15 dps is where
Everyone seems to like there knives ?
Also my uses for the blade's are basic
Daily chores really cutting anything that
Needs to be cut letters,clam shells, threads
Off clothing etc...

Frank
 
frc505 said:
OK so it seems to me 15 dps is where
Everyone seems to like there knives ?
Also my uses for the blade's are basic
Daily chores really cutting anything that
Needs to be cut letters,clam shells, threads
Off clothing etc...

Frank
Click to expand...
Hi,
15dps is a "safe" angle,
consider that under 15 dps edge can chop bones And 12 dps edge can still shaves/whittles beard hair after 1000 slices of hardwood ( yes a 1000 slices of hardwood )
25dps dulls faster than 20dps even if those are microbevel angles

Also consider this Extreme Regrind , ~6DPS no damage in 50 slices into pine, hardwood flooring and plywood the edge eventually gets damaged while cutting metal (steel food can)
Edge Retention : Cardboard


So if you're paying someone and they'll do it, and they won't over heat the blade, consider going extreme, say 7dps or 8dps, that would make subsequent sharpening at 10dps or 15dps easier for you.

Or better still you can keep it extreme at 7dps if you have the stones :D
but it might prove annoying with 4inch ones :D
 
Also consider this Extreme Regrind , ~6DPS no damage in 50 slices into pine, hardwood flooring and plywood the edge eventually gets damaged while cutting metal (steel food can)
Edge Retention : Cardboard


So if you're paying someone and they'll do it, and they won't over heat the blade, consider going extreme, say 7dps or 8dps, that would make subsequent sharpening at 10dps or 15dps easier for you.

Or better still you can keep it extreme at 7dps if you have the stones
Click to expand...

I totally AGREE !

Go thin and shallow; you can always steepen it a little later and
7dps or 8dps, that would make subsequent sharpening at 10dps or 15dps easier for you.
Click to expand...

Yup Yup.

The only reason ALL of my knives are not this way, yet, is it is a lot of work on the Edge Pro in the hard stuff I have for blades and I am a bit lazy. My softer blades : SAKs, kitchen knives, my Cold Steel majorly thinned Ti Lite IV . . . all of those are very shallow angle and thin behind the edge.

PS: however . . . be aware you are then creating a vastly superior cutting tool . . . a MONSTER if you will . . . and that can be dangerous to make a mistake with . . . once you have buried one of those edges half way through your thumb including the thumb nail . . . like I did once about thirty years ago you will know what I am talking about. Yah . . . once was enough.
 
15 DPS, and for light utility cutting I'd get about 2k-4k Japanese or 1000-1200 ANSI. For real utility cutting I'd do a little lower, 1k-1200 Japanese, 800 grit ANSI. In reality whatever edge they put on it will be plenty sharp - I wouldn't obsess over edge finish. If they use microbevels or paper wheels etc it will only muddy the water.

If you're having it reground, meaning the primary grind is thinner that would be better.

As long as the blade isn't too thick behind the edge I wouldn't bother with a regrind, you can really only decide on this after using it for a few. You can go thinner at the apex as advocated above, but as the inclusive angle drops below 24-26° it will increasingly lose lateral stability and have to be used with increasing care. All depends on what your idea of "utility" is.
 
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I like 18-22 degrees on most of my folders. A finishs thats a shiney satin. Over all a "working" edge
 
frc505 said:
OK so it seems to me 15 dps is where
Everyone seems to like there knives ?
Also my uses for the blade's are basic
Daily chores really cutting anything that
Needs to be cut letters,clam shells, threads
Off clothing etc...

Frank
Click to expand...

No, 15dps is too small an angle for many knives although it is great for the secondary or back bevel. 20 dps is a much more useful edge angle for the primary or micro bevel, the one that does the actual cutting.

Here is a good video about knife sharpening that sort of explains the two different sets of angles on a sharpened knife. I hope it helps clear the cobwebs. I was confused about it when I first got into knife sharpening. This guys has probably sharpened a million knifes during his career. Watch all four videos of this series if you want some great information about sharpening a knife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0r6GvESGg&t=75s
 
I do 12-13 degree back bevel (each side) and about a 17 degree microbevel when I use one.
 
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