question on discerning "real" damascus

D

Dagon

Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
1,932
Dear all,

I recently bought a fixed, full tang damascus blade knife on ebay.
The general impression is pretty good for the price but I wonder if it's real damascus as originally claimed or perhaps a damascus-like pattern was etched/printed on standard steel. The reason I ask: the blade looks marvelous but the metal between the handles doesn't show any damascus-like structure, just standard steel. Now I understand that the layers in damascus are made visible by an etching process, so can it be that's why the side of the blade seems like normal polished steel? Or do you expect it to be fake damascus?
Here are a few pictures to help you advise:

First impressions are quite nice in my opinion (that's a camel bone handle, by the way):
mbh74n.jpg


akihz6.jpg


But when you look at it from the top (or from the bottom), you notice that the top metal do not show a damascus pattern (except the blade top, and you can see where it stops showing), just polished steel. This made me worry if it's real damascus or not:

250va80.jpg


What makes it more confusing for me is this detail of a notch at the top of the blade, the intricate way the lines flow from the side into the opening suggest that it's real damascus:

tagcg6.jpg


So, what's your opinion? Thanks for any advice.

Dagon
 
It looks like real pattern welded 'damascus' steel to me.
It was probably finished (at least the handles) after the etching.
Greg
 
The look of Damascus steel is sometimes faked by etching or screen printing or painting, but the pattern in this case looks too fine to be faked. You can't get that small detail and detail inside the file work with those processes. From these pictures, I suspect that it's real. I'd look at the unpatterned areas with a 10x magnifier. You should be able to see the pattern a little bit that way.
 
Ok, thanks for the advice! Indeed, the detail inside the filework made me suspect it was real.
Now that's cleared up: it was quite a bargain, actually. Handmade in Pakistan, which can be an issue for some. But i think it looks nice, and the finish feels handcrafted.
 
They just polished the steel surface of the handle area. If you polish damascus (which had been etched earlier) it will lose the detail in time. Try sandpapering damascus and you'll see.
 
Another option is the blade is really damascus that has been welded to a plain steel tang. Many makers do this feeling that it keeps the cost of the knife down and really makes no sense to use expwnsive damascus steel and then cover it up with scales.
 
kdcknives said:
Another option is the blade is really damascus that has been welded to a plain steel tang. Many makers do this feeling that it keeps the cost of the knife down and really makes no sense to use expwnsive damascus steel and then cover it up with scales.
Click to expand...
+1. Its hard to tell from the pics, but that's possible.
 
A good remark, but in my case I think the blade and tang are in one piece.
I now think that I bought a proper (and good looking!) damascus knife, with polished instead of etched handle parts.
 
Couldn't you purchase some circuit board etching acid and lightly rub the polished edges to bring out the pattern?
 
Dagon said:
Ok, thanks for the advice! Indeed, the detail inside the filework made me suspect it was real.
Now that's cleared up: it was quite a bargain, actually. Handmade in Pakistan, which can be an issue for some. But i think it looks nice, and the finish feels handcrafted.
Click to expand...

Enjoy your knife - it certainly looks beautiful. I also recently acquired my first 'damascus' a horn-handled Laguiole by Rouergue .The mystique of 'Wootz' or 'Damasteel' comes from the days when alloy steels weren't around and Hi-C was the only way to go. The 'correct' forging / heat-treating / quenching processes produced a blade that was hard enough to hold an edge yet tough and flexible. Some of the better blades could be bent into a semi-circle and spring back.

These days, many knives are produced with 'damascus' blades but this is only for visual affect and even much of the quality damasteel available to knifemakers is not anything like the original 'wootz'. Back in the 80's Scientific American published an article on ultra hi-C folded steel - I'm still spewing that I lost my copy.

Of modern knifemakers, Roselli is the only one I know of that claims to produce 'wootz' blades

http://www.roselli.fi/1/eng/
 
I've noticed lot of damascus blades made in that style with similar raindrop patterns popping up on eBay. They all seem to have the same style sheath aswell. Camel bone is a popular handle material. Most of the sellers are from the UK.

I have a laguiole pattern probably made in the same shop. The steel was listed as 512 layers of 1095 & some bandsaw steel, with a hardness RC 57-59. The backspring is kind of weak but other than that it is a good knife and worth the 30 shipped I paid fot it.
 
Actually, the guy from Angelswords claims to have reinvented it and has patented it. He has been going after smaller knifemakers that use the term wootz (though I don't remember what the exact terms of contention were). There has been a lengthy thread about it over on the knifemakers forum. I wouldn't be surprised if the same person would sue Roselli for using the term, but Finland is a ways off. Certain is that they are not the only ones to claim to forge wootz.
 
Dagon said:
tagcg6.jpg


So, what's your opinion? Thanks for any advice.

Dagon
Click to expand...
The above picture is pretty much proof positive that it's real Damascus steel. The pattern follows correctly into the cuts in the steel. To fake to this level of perfection would cost as much as the real thing, so no one would do it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top