Question on pattern history.

J

jackknife

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Oct 2, 2004
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Something I wondered about.

Our beloved patterns like the stockman, its daddy the cattle knife, the muskrat, trapper, congress, elephants toenail, barlow, and the others, seem to be an American thing. For instance the stockman and cattle knife is far different that the knife a Basque herdsman carries. Having traveled through Europe, most of the knives I saw in the hands of working people seemed to be simple single bladed knives like Opinels, sodbusters (although they did not call them that) Douk-Douk's, Mercator K55's, and other single bladed knives.

Taking the herdsman thing- how did the American cowboy develope a three bladed knife when his counterparts in other parts of the world useed a simple shepards knife?

A few years back when number one son John was living in Buenos Aries for several months on buisness for his company, he arranged for Karen and me to come for a visit. We took a tour of the country including the Pampas, and went to a ranch BBQ. Beef is something they take seriously there. Some of the goucho's had traditional garb of the 1800's including a very large spearpoint sheath knife at their back, but others were working and dressed in normal jeans and workboots with grain company logo ball caps on thier heads. They all had large single bladed soddie type knives in leather pouch sheaths on thier hips. Yet they were doing the same ranch work as the American cowboys I knew in Trinidad Colorado.

Question- is the multi-bladed traditional knife as we know it an American invention?
 
The original folding pen knives were made quite simply to sharpen the quills used for pens. Often they would have a fold out spike as well used to split the quill open. I would think that when the spike was no longer needed thanks to the fountain pen someone decided a second blade could be used in it's place. Man has alway had the tendency to think if one is good then two must be better. Multi blade knives grew from there with the Swiss leading the way. After all who else would make a knife with 85 functioning foldout attachments.
 
As to your question, JK, I'd have to say an emphatic no! The Europeans were producing multi-blades long before we ever began producing them though they did tailor many of their products for our market.

When I was down in Brazil a few years back on an arms smuggling investigation, my Brazilian counterpart was kind enough to send me one of their traditional straight knives used by the horsemen of the Rio Grande Do Sul. They have a wonderful history.
 
I know the Europeans had some multiblade knives, but in the 1800's they seemed to be mainly the small gentlemans knives with button hooks, quill blades, nail files, like some of the wonderfull knives smiling-knife has. But by the main knife public, it just seemed to me that over the other side of the pond the simple single blade knife was more numerous. Shepards knives, peasents knives, all the same kind of Navaja, clasp knife type of pattern. The kind of knife carried by the stable hand or tannery worker down at the pub having a tankard of ale.

Of course I just may be delusional in my old age, so if I'm in error just pass me the ginsing.:D
 
In reading the Sheffield exhibition knives book and others, it seems that our British brothers had pretty much run the gambit of many patterns we see today long before the cutlery industry geared up in the US. Once it did, many of the patterns seen during the Sheffield Era became somewhat more specialized. In looking at the patterns from the Sheffield makers they ranged from small to huge. The Sheffield era, after all, is still known as the golden age of cutlery and many still consider the knives made at it's peak the best ever made. (Not sure if they have ever handled a Bose though) ;).
 
I think most of the patterns we know today go way back but the convention of specifically naming them all is a relatively reccent phenomena. In flipping through a reprint of the 1885 Wostenholm catalogue, there are categories creatively named 1, 2, 3 & 4 blade knives although the variety with these includes most of the patterns we know today i.e., pen knives, whittlers, jack knives, congress knives, and cattle/stockman knives. There are equal end, sleeveboard, gunstock, serpentine, curved, wharncliffe variations available in wood, pearl, horn, ivory and stag some with with different or no bolsters.. The possible combinations was huge. It is reported that Thomas Turner had in the range of 12,000 possible 'patterns' with 2,000-3,000 readily available to order. The few knives identified by pattern in the Wostenholm catalogue are congress knives (a.k.a Tobacco), scissor and nail knives (variations with scissors, files etc) and sportsman's knives. The latter being the multi-tools with corkscrews, leather bores, augers, hoof picks etc. Common modern patterns noticeably absent are Muskrat and Trapper. Perhaps these are distinctly American in origin. It is rumoured that the naming of some patterns e.g., senator and congress were marketing ploys to increase the attractiveness of Sheffield knives in the American market. Lincloln had a six-bladed, ivory-handled Sheffield Congress knife in his pocket the fateful night at Ford theatre.
 
jackknife said:
I know the Europeans had some multiblade knives, but in the 1800's they seemed to be mainly the small gentlemans knives with button hooks, quill blades, nail files, like some of the wonderfull knives smiling-knife has. But by the main knife public, it just seemed to me that over the other side of the pond the simple single blade knife was more numerous. Shepards knives, peasents knives, all the same kind of Navaja, clasp knife type of pattern. The kind of knife carried by the stable hand or tannery worker down at the pub having a tankard of ale.

Of course I just may be delusional in my old age, so if I'm in error just pass me the ginsing.:D
Click to expand...

I remember growing up in England.

A Jack knife that was like a Barlow that had a main clip and a small spear/pen.
A Camper that was like a Scout knife with spear blades nor clips, with a bail
The Army clasp knife, standard pattern sheeps foot blade with a bail
Pen knife was tiny pen blade for sharpening quills, with a bail

Fake MOP, lots of wood (rosewood), and black plastic.
The sheath knives were mainly stag and some stacked leather.
(Still have my two stag scout sheath knives)

Then work clasp knives were sheep or lambs foot single blades with or without bails in wood.
That is what I remember seeing by old gardeners, and in the workers eating ploughmans lunches in country pubs.
You got your pint, roll and chuck of cheese on a plate, but never a knife to cut it with!!!

Also these were sharpened with carberundum stones, the fine was still course!

This is highly non-scientific!
Just recalling...
 
smiling-knife,

I too was trying to think about "Yank" patterns. Ever seen any saddle horns by Rogers or Wostenholm. Limited to 4 books, I have not.
 
There are a few knives in these pages that look similar to saddle horns from Jos Rodgers c1910.

scan0007.jpg

scan0013-1.jpg
 
jackknife said:
Taking the herdsman thing- how did the American cowboy develope a three bladed knife when his counterparts in other parts of the world useed a simple shepards knife?
Click to expand...

I think part of it was due to the fact that those simple shepherd knives were already well ingrained in European culture. The Spanish had their navajas, the French had their laguioles, etc. America through the 20th Century was still a relatively young nation and was still in the process of figuring itself out. Because we didn't have an established favorite Americans were free to choose whatever pocketknife tickled their fancy. For some it was the trapper, others the stockman, and still others the barlow.
 
Thank you SK! Look like an strong influence to me ;).
 
Pretty sure smiling-knife has nailed it. Sheffield was the dominant cutlery town in the 19th century, just look at all those patterns and variations on offer in the catalogues.They may well have used American associated names to gain favour in the US market and these patterns were adopted and improved on by domestic cutlers and moreover, they found a real use in the expanding frontier and cities of America.

Europeans certainly made multi blades and leatherman like multi tools in the 19th and early 20th centuries but it seems that the US is where these tools really caught on.Europeans MAY have just had single blades for preference as they just wore them out and bought a replacement very quickly.Multi blades keep your knife working longer.Knives certainly got a lot of very heavy and constant use in the past.

I would like to know WHEN approx, pattern names came into being? When did people start using names like Peanut, Trapper,Stockman,Gunstock etc. It could be more recent than we think.Old catalogues will help here.

We know that there are many defunct makers,sadly, but are there extinct patterns that are hardly ever used now? Time for a revival maybe?
 
I can't speak about the then, but I know that these days in Europe, about all you see guys toting are single-blade folders (or a SAK or sometimes a multi-tool). But it's pretty much the same as what I see in the States these days. And it's also representative of what I see here on the other parts of bladeforums.

It puzzles me to no end - why limit yourself to one blade when you can have a second or third in such a cool little package as a traditional, useful multi-blade folding pocketknife? But then again, I might be biased, being folksy and all.
 
mnblade said:
I can't speak about the then, but I know that these days in Europe, about all you see guys toting are single-blade folders (or a SAK or sometimes a multi-tool). But it's pretty much the same as what I see in the States these days. And it's also representative of what I see here on the other parts of bladeforums.

It puzzles me to no end - why limit yourself to one blade when you can have a second or third in such a cool little package as a traditional, useful multi-blade folding pocketknife? But then again, I might be biased, being folksy and all.
Click to expand...

I guess that is what started me wondering about the single blade vs multi-blade knife. When I traveled through Germany, Southwestern France, Romania, and Argentina, and Costa Rica, most of what I saw was the simple single blade knife, with the exeptions of an occasional sak or gentlemans knife.

When I would go through museums, most of the relic folding knives of the 1700's and early 1800's were again of the "shepards knife" or similar. Especially in Europe. So i began to question just when and where the multi-blade pocket knives as we know them came to be. The U. S.? England? Late 19th century?

In the hundreds of years folding knives have been around, it seems like the more complex multibladed ones are of relitive recent popularity. For most of the 1600, 1700, and 1800's, for the regular working joe, carpenter, farmer, sailor, stable hand, the simple single blade was the rule. On the other hand, when I grew up (1940's-50's) the only single blade folders I saw were "switchblades". All the blue collar working men I knew like watermen, mechanics, carpenters, all had some sort of two blade jack or three blade stockman. Kind of a role reversal. Then in 1963 Buck changed the knife world again, and now most folding knives being sold are the single blade types again by the likes of Benchmade, Spyderco, and the others who make "tactical" type of knives. With the demise of Schrade, Camillus, there is less and less traditional multiblades being made.

It all made me wonder about the ebb and flow of the knife patterns.
 
Hi,

I guess I see the single blade vs. the multi-blade folder as one of economics. The people you identify, the working class, just didn't have a lot of money to spend on a fancier, more costly to make multi-bladed folder.

Remember, when steels were first used to make knives, it was difficult and expensive to make. And the knives themselves were made one at a time by hand. A multi-bladed knife was a status symbol and sign of wealth. The simple farmer or day-laborer didn't really have that kind of money to splurge. So simple, single bladed knives were the norm for the working class. A tradition that they seem to carry on today.

In the US, I think single blades were pretty common until about the Civil War. Then with the general movement to mass production, and better methods of steel making, and an easy availability of high grade ore, dropped the cost of those once expensive to make multi-bladed folders down to a level that everyone could easily afford. So we have a tradition of multi-blade patterns here in the US.

Today, modern manufacturing methods have made very good knives of any pattern you might want, dirt cheap. So here in the US, we can pick our knives by "style" and not have to consider cost. Our European friends can do the same too. Some do, but most seem to remain loyal to traditional designs.

Looking at my small assortment of personal knives, I own 10 single bladed folders, 1 fixed blade, and just a single 3 bladed Sowbelly Stockman. Some of these knives I've owned for close to 20 years now. The Sowbelly, about 4 hours now. :D

This is just my take, and perhaps not really correct.

dalee
 
SK, Blues, jackknife, et al:

You are correct in stating that the cutlers in Sheffield were making all of these patterns, but that does not necessarily mean they were "English" patterns! Remember, Sheffield's cutlery firms produced a tremendous amount of knives of all types for the American trade...we were one of their biggest customers! They took a lot of input from the wants, needs and desires of one their biggest customers...us...when it came to knife design. Of course, the master cutlers had many of their own unique and marvelous designs...they were, after all, artisans of the highest caliber. But they also made the knives that the "working class" of America wanted as well, just like any good company with an aggressive marketing branch will do.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Ron
 
Ron, if you go back to my post (above) you'll find that I did indeed take that into account:

As to your question, JK, I'd have to say an emphatic no! The Europeans were producing multi-blades long before we ever began producing them though they did tailor many of their products for our market.
Click to expand...
 
In my reading the "big Boom" in multiblade's from a "world wide" perspective came from the Crystal Palace exhibition at the "Worlds Fair" in London in the mid 1800's where the Sheffield firms displayed some of the most exquisite knives ever made according to many modern knife historians of today.

They were made before then, but this very significant event which corresponded to a period when transportation across the world and world trade became more common place than in the past put them in a world wide perspective..
 
Blues, my apologies, you're right...I missed it! I believe the Sheffield Cutlery companies had some of the best marketing folks in the world back in the 19th century. Not only with pocket cutlery, but with the prolific marketing and sales of Sheffield Bowies. It's amazing how they were able to, literally, arm the world with knives of all sizes back then.

Ron
 
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