Question on Prod., Mid-Tech, and Custom

[Locutus D'Borg]

So, I'm broke....which is why I'm looking at expensive knives for sale- lol. Anyway, I have been thinking about Holt, Koenig, Herman, and Rosies. Their prices run from 700ish to 1800ish.

What I can't figure is, are they mid-techs, which is my first thought, or customs. Because sometimes the same model will be for sale in the custom section and a week later someone else posts one on the Production section.

FYI, I really like the looks of Hermans but they are rare on the exchange.

Thanx for your help.

 

[ADBrown]

So, I'm broke....which is why I'm looking at expensive knives for sale- lol. Anyway, I have been thinking about Holt, Koenig, Herman, and Rosies. Their prices run from 700ish to 1800ish.

What I can't figure is, are they mid-techs, which is my first thought, or customs. Because sometimes the same model will be for sale in the custom section and a week later someone else posts one on the Production section.

FYI, I really like the looks of Hermans but they are rare on the exchange.

Thanx for your help.

I just had the same thought...

 

[Kmikaz3]

I thought the term midtech is for outsourcing elsewhere and assembled inhouse afterwards… i could be wrong there. If so, most of them aren’t, and i would say they are more high end production in small batches.

I know Koenig, Oz Machine and maybe Hermans does all their stuff inhouse

 

[snuffle]

I kind of want someone to start a knife company called Midtech Knives, just to make the recurring conversations that much more confusing.

My understanding of the terms: custom means made one at a time, pieces fitted against each other, etc. The expectation is generally high quality, high-touch work, but I guess incompetent customs are still customs.

Production means just that: there has been some sort of design for manufacturing process to optimize for output. Doesn't mean they're not nice, it does means batch processes.

Midtech is somewhere in between - some parts may be done in batches, but some amount of hand fitting and finish is done. I think the vagueness leaves a lot of room, so I'm not sure how much meaning to attach to it.

I don't know how they're made, but I always assumed Oz was making customs at that price. Same with Holt. Herman, I believe, does both, as does Koenig.

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

I thought the term midtech is for outsourcing elsewhere and assembled inhouse afterwards… i could be wrong there. If so, most of them aren’t, and i would say they are more high end production in small batches.

I know Koenig, Oz Machine and maybe Hermans does all their stuff inhouse

Thanks so much.

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

I kind of want someone to start a knife company called Midtech Knives, just to make the recurring conversations that much more confusing.

My understanding of the terms: custom means made one at a time, pieces fitted against each other, etc. The expectation is generally high quality, high-touch work, but I guess incompetent customs are still customs.

Production means just that: there has been some sort of design for manufacturing process to optimize for output. Doesn't mean they're not nice, it does means batch processes.

Midtech is somewhere in between - some parts may be done in batches, but some amount of hand fitting and finish is done. I think the vagueness leaves a lot of room, so I'm not sure how much meaning to attach to it.

I don't know how they're made, but I always assumed Oz was making customs at that price. Same with Holt. Herman, I believe, does both, as does Koenig.

I really appreciate your thoughtful response. I think between you and kmikaz3 I have my answer. Thanks.

 

[ADBrown]

Perhaps a moderator could weigh in with an official definition of each of these categories. Mid-tech seems to be a bit open to interpretation...

 

[strategy9]

My personal take has always been, mid-tech = very high end production. Custom is just that, each piece custom made to order...
That said, most "customs" are not actual customs. If anything, many are in fact "one-offs", where a maker made one piece at a time, each one unique, (similar to a custom), but for me if it wasn't custom ordered, customized specifically to a customer's specific individual request, then it is not truly a "custom" piece.

 

[K.O.D.]

I think to most people refer to custom knives as hand fitted, not made in a factory. To me, that is more semi-custom, but whatever I go with it. Either way they are hand made/fitted with care by a real person.

Something truly custom would be working with someone like Alan Davis where you pick all the materials out yourself, based on one of his designs.

Everything else falls into production for me. I guess midtech would be something made in a factory in smaller batches.

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

I think to most people refer to custom knives as hand fitted, not made in a factory. To me, that is more semi-custom, but whatever I go with it. Either way they are hand made/fitted with care by a real person.

Something truly custom would be working with someone like Alan Davis where you pick all the materials out yourself, based on one of his designs.

Everything else falls into production for me. I guess midtech would be something made in a factory in smaller batches.

Makes sense. Sometimes knife buying reminds me of buying mattresses, where manufacturers make it intentionally difficult to compare brands.

 

[K.O.D.]

Makes sense. Sometimes knife buying reminds me of buying mattresses, where manufacturers make it intentionally difficult to compare brands.

Yes mattresses are quite complicated. I'm happy with my Brentwood home crystal cove. Made in America.

I think most knives considered custom are basically one or two man operations or such, everything (except sometimes heat treat) in house.

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

Yes mattresses are quite complicated. I'm happy with my Brentwood home crystal cove. Made in America.

I think most knives considered custom are basically one or two man operations or such, everything (except sometimes heat treat) in house.

So, the other day the wife decided we need a new mattress (we have a 20 year old tempurpedic). So we go to the local Tempurpedic store. I was shocked at the prices. The lowest one was like 2K. A middle-quality one with their cooling top was 4K and the pillows were hundreds each. 4K is like Lochsa money. Needless to say, I convinced her to get some sleeping pills.

 

[gdwtvb]

It is very hard to come up with any hard and fast rules. Is it a custom when each part of the knife is made by precision milling machines that can spit out copy after copy? But what if only one person designed the knife and runs the machine?

I like to think of it like this, and this is solely my opinion. A custom is a one off. A unique knife made by one maker. It might be unique because it is hand fitted from parts he made. I would expect every part other than screws/pins to be shaped and finished by the custom maker. But even that is not exact is it? Is it a custom if a maker sends off his blade for heat treat? I say yes. What if one maker makes almost identical knives through the use of CNC milling machines? As long as it is him running the machines and doing all the assembly/fitting, I would call it a custom. To me a custom comes from a one man knife factory. There might be others that take the orders, do the packaging and shipping. But to me a custom is a knife taken from plain materials to finished knife by a single maker.

Next is midtech, and this is where a custom maker ramps up production. Like the video, I think it is only mid-tech, when a single maker actually does the majority of the assembly and fitting/finishing of a knife. But the maker has progressed away from one-offs to a more production oriented business model. Perhaps someone else does the handles or he sends the file to a factory in China and recieves them. To me a midtech needs to still be assembled by a maker, otherwise it isn't mid-tech it's production.

Finally, production knives are everythign else. Even if they are high quality and are made to a licensed design made by a custom maker. If they weren't assembled and fitted by the maker, they're production pieces.

Grizz