Question on Steel....

R

RicBrannon

Joined
Sep 27, 2001
Messages
328
Hey All,
I talked to Rainmaker about this a little bit but I'd like some more in put. I'm looking to get a survival knife made but I'm not sure of the best steel. It's a 51/2" blade with a big belly like the WSK for scaping hides and skinning (without the secondary edge/draw knife) and a saw back kind of like the one on the WSK for notching and the like.
Now what I would like is a steel that will hold a good SHARP edge for a good LONG while without needing to be resharpened too often. (I know all knives need to be sharpened but some stay sharp longer then others.) I have heard that S30v is really good and I know D2 is good too. Some say S30v is better and others say 0-1 for easy of sharpening in the field. That I'm not real worried about, I would rather it stay sharp as long as possable then be easy to sharpen. Make sense? What do you think?

Ric
 
I think the better Carbon steels will always be easier to sharpen in the field, but I also think the problem of sharpening a stain-resistant alloy is overstated. My experience says the thing to do is maintain the edge you start with by frequent stropping and touchups in-between uses.

That having been said, I'd look at A2 for choppers - if you just have to chop with a knife - and D2 for slicing, etc. The Doziers I'm using maintain a keen edge longer than anything else I've used, and - while I haven't yet tried to sharpen them with any field-expedient material - they haven't been overly difficult to touchup (or re-cut an edge on) at home in my shop.

There are some other "wonder steels" I've used with sexy designs, good marketing, and un-arguable toughness... but none of them has maintained a decent CUTTING edge through more than a day's use of gutting, skinning, etc.

I have not used S30V and, like Ric, would like to hear about it from someone who's taken that steel into the field, and done some wilderness / hunting work with it.
 
Either steel you mentioned would be good for edge holding. If you plan on hacking or chopping then I would say 5160 for it's resistant to high impact. This is straight carbon and is easy to resharpen.
Scott
 
I love S30V. I have used my knives hard in the field during several, week long survival courses that I have taking. My knives have 4" blades, and the S30V took heavy battoning to split logs, carved fireboards and spindles, maked a few spoons, and several traps. I just had to touch up the blades alittle when I got home.

Ron
 
Thanks guys. It sounds like S30v or D2 so far. Thats what I'm looking for something that will carve spindles/fire boards, skin & scrape the hide, make traps and only need light touch ups at the end of the day. I don't chop, just haven't had the need and don't see why there would be a need. I've battoned at times to plit wood for the fire but not much. Besides getting all wacky and spastic in the woods like that can get you hurt real fast.
Any more suggestions? Thanks again.

Ric
 
If you go with D2 or S30V keep the hardness down below 60rc The harder the blade is the more brittle it will be. If it has a high rc and you baton it through wood you may have a problem with the edge chipping depending on how thin the grind is. I like 58rc as a all around hardness. If you are having it custom made, ask the maker to harden it where you want it. Most if not all will accomadate your request. Just my 2 cents. :)
Scott
 
Personally, From my experience I like my folders to be stainless and my fixed blades to be a high carbon steel. You figure a folder is the back up to your fixed blade, so you want one that will last in your pocket until you need it with less care/worry of rust. Your fixed blade will be the blade you reach for first, will see the most use, and should be cared for the most. Therefore, the high carbon steel is better for the ease of sharpening and ability to hold an edge. I would however, first think of where you live. I carried a high carbon knife camping by my house (north jersey) and just by keeping it dry it was fine, however I took it down to south jersey and it developed rust spots the next morning after I put it in the front of my pack to sleep. If you live somewhere that is humid or salty stainless is definately the way to go.

Now however I carry a 154cm or S30V fixed blade and an S30V folder. The difference is noticable (to me), but very slight and most people wouldn't notice it at all. I switched just because I like the style of the two stainless bladed knives better then the carbon. Steel didn't really play any part in my decision. My opinion now is as long as you get a higher end common name steel you will fare fine.

My reccomendations:
Carbon:
1095
O1 (O6 maybe)
5160
52100

Stainless:
154CM
S30V
CPM-3V

Any of those are fine, I'm not a big fan of D2 in fixed blades as I think it shines most in the small thin blades, but it really depends on the style and grind of the knife in question. Therefore, without knowing all the knife specs I can't really reccomend D2.
 
The steel is only 50% of the issue. Heat treat and its methods are the other 50%.

Not all steels perform the same even though they are identicle due to the heat treat on them. It is much more complicated than just a steel and its RH.

Skam
 
3v isn't stainless. It does have a little stain resistance, but not much more than most carbon alloys. 3v rusting isn't very nice either, since it tends to leave small deep pits. On a knife that small which won't be used for chopping, properly heat treated stainless or carbon steel will be fine. For the uses you stated stainless would probably be prefered.
 
If chopping isn't a concern, then D2 by all means for what you stated you want. S30V is, according to some, equal to or a little better than VG10 in edge holding. My S30V knife is not nearly as good as VG10. I've seen tests where properly heat treated D2 will hold an edge 3 times longer than VG10, so figure it will hold an edge 2 to 3 times longer than S30v.

If edge holding is what you want most, give Mr. Dozier a call. Even my "cheap" Queen 4180 Hunters in D2 smoke most of my other blades in edge holding. Once I thinned the edge out, they hold it for a **very** long time, and resharpen very easily.

I think geometry and heat treat play a major role here.
 
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