question on university policy wording

Hawkins

Hawkins

Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Messages
571
A) Prohibited Conduct

Syracuse University is committed to the principle that freedom of discussion is essential to the search for truth and, consequently, welcomes and encourages the expression of dissent. Freedom of expression, however, ceases at the point at which its exercise infringes on the rights of either participants or nonparticipants. In order to preserve freedom of discussion and to protect the rights of all, the following conduct is prohibited:

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4. Illegal or unauthorized possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals, or other dangerous weapons or instruments on University-owned or University-controlled premises.
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[/quote]

(italics are mine)
now, i carry a Spyderco Native EDC, with a spydercard in my wallet. i don't carry them primarily for self defense, so i don't consider them weapons, but are they included in the catchall "dangerous instruments"?

whats your take? or should i go to student legal services and ask? the phrasing of that is awfully wide... i'm sure you all know how deadly a pen can be, or cause some pretty painful injuries with keys, or even bare hands... would THESE fall under the definition of dangerous instruments?

(what would happen if someone got beated by a flute, beaned with a tuba, or had a piano dropped on him? dangerous instruments, indeed ;))
 
Um ... doesn't that word illegal kind of jump out at you? You're not in illegal possession of any dangerous weapons, are you?
 
Hmmm. I agree with you, just about anything can be used as a weapon, but I'd hate to have to argue my way out of trouble with that excuse. You might want to go ahead and check with legal services or campus police as to the interpretation of that rule. Maybe let them check out your knives and assure them they are just tools (the knives, not the people).

At the state university I went to the rule prohibited any "weapons", but in practice it didn't apply to knives; guys with knives in their pockets were pretty common.

At my new school (just transferred), the rule explicitly states that only illegal knives are prohibited. Oh, that every school would have a clear, simple rule like this :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, but I bet that won't stop them :( If you had a concealed carry permit, I bet they wouldn't let you carry on campus, even though it's allowed by the letter of their law.
Originally posted by Cougar Allen
Um ... doesn't that word illegal kind of jump out at you? You're not in illegal possession of any dangerous weapons, are you?
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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153214

University PD may not even know the laws they are PAID to uphold. That happened in my case. I edned up with the charges being dropped and me getting back what arguably is the most expensive production folder :rolleyes: ($140:knife + $3000:legal fees). I cannot sue the PD for false arrest either because the police in Kalifornia are protected against false arrest. Read all of your policy, perhaps have a lawyer go over it with you. Don't let them f*ck with you.

I don't want this happening to another innocent knifeknut.
 
Originally posted by Cougar Allen
Um ... doesn't that word illegal kind of jump out at you? You're not in illegal possession of any dangerous weapons, are you?
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nope, the native is legal in NY. its under 3 inches.
the words "illegal or unauthorized" jumped out at me. do i have authorization to carry this thing that to many sheeple would seem to be a deadly weapon capable of killing entire residence halls or slaughtering lecture halls full of helpless students.

i think i'm going to ask legal services come monday... now, should i bring it with me to show them? or phrase it more hypethetically?
 
solid- yeah, i read that... that was one of the things that prompted me to start checking :)

congrats on "winning" that, and my condolences on the hassle it caused you.
 
I would first ask them to spell out the rules. Get it in writing would be better. Then, if it looks like your Native falls in the guidelines, take it (and the written explanation) and have them "authorize" it. Again, get it in writing.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to get any authorization in writing. If worse comes to worse, you definately want some documents showing that it was approved.
 
You're exactly right, if I had done that... it may have saved me some trouble.
 
I don't like the use of the word instruments in that rule. It seems to me to be a catchall to enable outlawing virtually anything they wish to. It seems entirely possible that "instrument" is to be defined at each incident/episode by whatever security person happens to be on site. In other words, they won't be pinned down, and don't intend to lose any appeals of any decisions they make in this area.

In generic terms, I think it is critical for knife knuts to consciously work at thinking of their knives as tools. If you're carrying and an LEO/security person asks if you have any weapons on you, the answer should be, "NO!"

Given such an effort to make their powers as wide as possible, I think the business of getting something in writing would be really important for you. I'd sure try to get them to provide as many definitions as possible verbally before the paper is produced too. Immediately after any such meeting, sit down and write as comprehensively as possible all the significant discussion/definitions, cautions, assurances that are made verbally. Then put those notes in some very safe place. The old "psych" trick of repeating such things back to them, perhaps phrased differently could prove useful. Then you have them saying the important stuff twice, and essentially clarifying the first statement, if they make a second statement. Might turn out to be absolutely worthless paper, but then again, might really save your bacon.

I'd be willing to bet that if you do receive something in writing that the fact will not be passed on to the security people. And, expect them to wish to expand the definition of weapon or instrument in the broadest manner possible.
 
I hate college policies, as many of you probably know from last may, when I was busted by an "anonymous letter", most likely from a former roomie who we got kicked out of our room for being an A$$. I had my EDI GEN2, a stockman I redid with stablized buckeye burl, and a TOm anderson FB warnie. MY kitchen knives, some of them big custom jobs, were fine, but a little 3" warnie or a stockman were prohobited, as were the 7 or 8 knife blanks I had (No ht yet, no edges on them, not too too pointy). They confiscated them, and I got them back at the end of the semester. It was a PITA. For the stuff that had edge, I had a legit reason for them with my track and field involvement, like cutting med tape, leather, that type of stuff. The policy said no knives, but most of the stuff didnt have an edge (no edge, not a cutting instrumne tby def of a knife, i know it wont hold up in court), and the stuff that did, i had a legit reason for. Funny thing is that communters and everyone carries a pocket knife, u can see pocket clips and the knife handle sticking out of pockets on many of the guys, and nothing is said. My stuff was buried in the bottom of a drawer and I only take it out when I need it for cutting med tape and stuff, then i gets buried again.

My advice, carry a small folder for utility, keep the spyderco wallet thingy in your wallet. IF they ask about weapons, say no. IF they search, its a utility tool, not a weapon. Also, don't give them a reason to search your or your apartment. If you don't tell them, chances are they wont care about a small pocket knife. We had one kid who had a cheapy collection, big bowies and stuff under his bed, and carried like 5 knives on him, u could see the prints in every one of his pockets, nothin was ever said to him.

Also, if the blade is legal to carry in your state/town, its not an illegal or dangerous weapon. if all else fails, if they ask, say u have a knife cuz just got a package and wanted to open it, or u use it for small food prep, like with an apple or something. Stress that it is utility, not a self defense carry. Also, have some place u can lock it in, and tell them thats where it usually is, unless you need it for a utility purpose, like opening mail, cutting food, cleaning your finger nails, etc :) Good luck and be careful. If u go partying, DO NOT carry a blade, it will cause trouble, esp if the party is busted. Dont show off the blade to people, just carry it discretely.
 
I was at SU last year. I lived off campus, but I never went anywhere without a blade, and no-one ever gave me any trouble (but I didn't exactly wave it around in Schine student center either). I wouldn't go around at night without a blade on SU anyway, since the highest crime part of syracuse is about mile away and people kind of drift up from there at night. Are you new to syracuse? Drop me an email sometime, I'm taking a semester off from SU but I'll be back in January. By the way, stay out of thornden park at night, it's a common place for SU students to get mugged. My advice is follow state law and stay out of trouble, you should be fine. Unless you are partying or copping an attitude with them, Campus cops on SU are decent people.
 
I would not bring myself to their attention if I were you. I'll give you an example. While I was attending the University of Alabama my roommate and I lived in an on campus apartment. We both owned pistols. He decided to do the "right" thing and his pistol into the university police so that they could "keep it for him" until he could take it home. I decided to do the "wrong" thing and keep my pistol by my bed. So my buddy sticks his pistol unloaded in the box in his backpack and walks over to the police station (he did not own a car). When he explained to them what he was there for he very nearly was arrested for having a gun on campus!!! I never had any run in with the university police at all my whole 4 years. Who was better off?
 
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