Question on weight for peformance.

pcnorton

pcnorton

Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Messages
5,105
First of all, awesome looking tomahawks. My question is with the Ti hawk. If it is Ti it should be light but I thought that mass had something to do with cutting performance. Like when you swing an axe, or hawk the weight does alot of the work would a light hawk not bury as deep when thrown? Or not cut deep?

Just wondering.


Paul
 
pcnorton, I'm a carpenter. I use hammers every day. I have a twenty ounce hammer. A fellow worker bought a ti hammer that weighs 11ounces. It drives nail the same as mine. Same amount of effort with both hammers. It doesn't make sense, but it works. That's the way I look at ATC's TI hawk. It's the same motion. They both work very simular. One drives nails, one chops, cuts, gets thrown. They both have a handle, a titanium head. If one works why won't the other.

The only difference is cost. One costs alot more than the other. As soon as I can get my wife talked into it I'll be ordering a titanium hawk. Some people will say your crazy! I'll say your right but it's only money and you can't take it with you. One more thing a didn't mention is the titanium hammer had no SHOCK! None at all. Which may or may not be a factor with a hawk, but it's one more thing to think about. I'm like evry one else. I would like to see the price come down also. If the T3 is a success and there's a demand for it, it could lower the price or drive it up. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

One thing I think I could do with out is the probe in the handle. I'm sure it has a valuable use in the military world but not in mine. I think it should be available regardless. It's just not something that rings my bell. The rest of the hawk I love. Great job ATC on another great hawk design.
 
I think you will have to put more into your swing to cut as deep with a lighter hawk. As far as throwing, I don't think you will have to put too much more into it but in my opinion this isn't really a throwing hawk. I don't think it will make TOO much of a difference but it will make some. I think this hawk is more for people in maritime environments or CQB and maybe some throwing. ATC makes many hawks, and it was just time for the super light ti hawk to come out :D However... don't take too much into what I say... just trying to help best I can, but we'll see what Andy, Justin or Suzanne have to say about it!

P.S. The hawks don't just look great, they work like a dream.
 
One thing I would like to see as I'm sure blueflinthawk(rob) would also like, is a Next Generation titanium Ranger spike hawk. HAWK ATTACK! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Yes the medication ran out. Send more Suzanne send more. My training hawk hasn't shown itself yet.HAWK ATTACK! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! You didn't honestly think I could go one day without a hawk attack. Did you? :eek:
 
I got the 3 main ATC hawks which is all I can afford for a while... I'm young and have been broke since I bought these hawks. I'm a bit more interested in steel :D What I wanna see is an INFI NG Ranger! How about it, Andy?
 
I would like to address a couple of issues in this thread. First the TI hawk and it's weigh vs chopping/throwing. It is really hard to say for sure what affect the weight will have on the chopping and throwing ability of the hawk since one has never been made before. The chopping I am not concerned about its ability to chop and I don't see that you will have to put any more effort into it. Chopping has more factors to it than just the weight of the head. For example the cutting angle of the blade face and how sharp it is. These two factors have more of a bering on the chopping ability than does the weight. With all of that being said it will chop with the same or less effort than a hawk made from steel. As for throwing it will be fine just take alittle getting used to the difference in weight.

Now on to the probe. I was a little premature in my earlier statement. We have not decide yet if it will be an option or standard. Sorry just got a little excited about the TI hawk.
 
Regarding chopping performance...force equals mass times velocity. With a lighter tool you will be able to achieve a higher velocity, based on the amount of effort you exert. Therefore, a lighter hawk can hit just as hard as a heavier one. The real advantage of this is in CQB, where a lighter weapon is more easily swung, with an easier to adjust direction, etc., than a heavier one. There are obviously limits to the speed a human arm can achieve, which is why you can't just use a 20 oz framing hammer like a 20 lb sledge by swinging it faster (other factors come into play too), but where the weight difference is only a few ounces, you can definitely compensate for less weight by swinging faster. Depending on your application, this can be an advantage or a disadvantage.

(Did all that sound like something Cliff Stamp would say? :))
 
I got my training hawk today. It's also coming close to the end of the month which means soon the NG ranger hawks will be on the way. Which also means that the backorder club will soon be coming to an end. Excuse me I'm tearing up.

Now back to the training hawk. Vietnam style, very light, very tuff very safe. The hawk head is black the handle is green and it's drilled for a lanyard. Happy day! A lanyard hole! Yes it's that big of a deal to me. The trainer is great. If your a hawk nut get one. I don't remember what the price is. I'm sure Suzanne can answer that question. Get a training hawk so the next time your showing all your friends some cool hawk moves you won't accidently send them to the hospital or the grave yard.

Keep your hawks sharp and be safe.
 
Burke, sorry to do this, but YOU ARE WRONG! :)

Force = mass x acceleration.

The more useful calculation, though, is the one for kientic energy. Kinetic energy is the energy in a moving object.

Ek = 1/2MV2 Kinetic energy equals Mass times velocity squared, all divided by 2. increases in velocity can make up for lower masses quite a bit, since the velocity component is squared. Ever wonder why little Bruce Lee could generate so much power? His speed was the key.

This calculation isn't the only thing, however. As Justin, the resident Super Ranger told us, design of the moving object is VERY important. A baseball and a drinking glass of the same wight travelign at the sam espeed will hurt to different degrees when they strike your noggen. Why? The ball will transfer more of that kinetic energy into your noggen. A titanium hawk moving fast with great edge geometry, a sharp edge, and a forward balance will REALLY sock it to a bad guy.

:D :D :D

Off to watch Last of the Mohicans (sorry for spelling) to see some hawks as I lust after a Next Gen Ranger, I remain, Crayola.
 
Bear,

I'm glad you like the trainer - I hope it tides you over until the NG Ranger and your meds get there. LOL

For those interested:

Training Hawks are $65. They're patterened after the Field Grade Vietnam (black head, green handle). They're made from hand-laid fiberglass and truly a blast to train with. And as Bear mentioned they have holes for the lanyard.

Now, Lanyards: Lanyards are available for $25 each, free shipping. They're pre-tied and come with color instructions for attaching and finishing off. They make an awesome addition to your hawks, not just for looks but for function. They're available in OD Green, Black and a Green/Black blend. We also have a couple colors available. Justin can post that here since I don't know what all he got in. If you have a color request, just let us know. We're experimenting with 3-colors (red, white and blue maybe?) and maybe that can be worked out.

If you have any other questions you all know that you can email, call or post here and we'll take care of you.
 
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