Question re: Hitachi Steels

Willie71

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
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I was looking at ordering some Hitachi Blue steel for some kitchen knives. Looking at the composition, it appears quite similar to the W- series steels. What is the difference?
 
Blue steel and W2 are similar, but the alloying in Blue steel is higher than W2. There is more Cr, more V, more W in Blue. I would say larger carbides, greater wear resistance in the Blue. Stacy.......?
 
Higher alloy, mostly tungsten, higher quality - much less contamination(Cu,P,S)
It should be treated as plain high carbon steel, but an ultimate edition.
 
I'm going to order some. Based on the carbon levels, I'm thinking 1450- 1470 austentizing temp into DT48 fast oil? 10-15 minute soak?
 
Yep...sounds right. Keep it at or under 1475 and a soak for 10-15 and into a fast or "semi-fast" oil would be nailing it!!! Idaho mentioned another quality of the Hitachi steels, whether blue or white...they are very pure with lower Cu, P, and S than other steels.
 
Where are you ordering from? I was under the impression that they didn't ship that stuff out of Japan. Must just be a myth related to the steel they make samurai swords from?
 
There's a couple suppliers in Germany that will ship internationally. See the other post on these steels in this forum. I was looking at them last month, but sort of forgot about it until Stuart's post.
 
White #2 is almost exactly like w1. Basically close enough to be interchangeable. Blue has more alloy elements than the white. Kind of similar but not identical to the comparison of w1 and o1. For the cost involved to get it imported, I doubt you will see any improvement in actual results over other simple tool steels we have here for much cheaper. That being said, Hitachi is a respected brand name in steel and you may be able to sell a knife for more based on that alone, and that may negate the increased cost of the material.
 
JMJones said:
White #2 is almost exactly like w1. Basically close enough to be interchangeable. Blue has more alloy elements than the white. Kind of similar but not identical to the comparison of w1 and o1. For the cost involved to get it imported, I doubt you will see any improvement in actual results over other simple tool steels we have here for much cheaper. That being said, Hitachi is a respected brand name in steel and you may be able to sell a knife for more based on that alone, and that may negate the increased cost of the material.
Click to expand...

That's it exactly. I think O1, 52100, 15n20 and aeb-l all make great kitchen knives. They aren't Japanese steel though in terms of selling.
 
That, and white #2 has lower manganese than W1. That as well as it's simplicity and purity should make it QUITE shallow hardening. I'd love to try some if it was available at what I'd consider a reasonable price. I broke it down one time, odering a bar of limited proportions from Germany would run like $40/lb or so, shipping considered.

The low mang W2 I have was acquired for $3.50/lb a couple years back.
 
Not to change the subject, but wasn't there a rumor a little while back about Aldo getting hitachi white?

- Chris
 
I get my white/blue steels and other Japanese steel products from Dictum:
http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/category/Staehle-3624_3628.htm?lang=en


The main thing that makes Hitachi papered steels stand out in the crowd is quality. We all have read threads about problems with this or that steel, bad batches, funny quench results, etc......you don't find those threads about Hitachi paper steels.
Hitachi steels are dead on as far as quality and assay. The very low manganese and other alloys make the white paper #1 great for top end hamon blades. The blue is alloyed tough and really gets hard. The multi layer and san-mai billets make great classic Japanese blades. The suminagashi makes beautiful blades that have a Rc 62-63 edge. All this makes using these steels worth the extra cost and difficulty of attaining them.

HOWEVER, this won't make your knife a good knife if your skills or HT isn't good. With good skills and HT W2, 52100, or 1095 will give similar results to Hitachi steels. I usually suggest making your blades out of the available steels and when you have the blade shape, geometry, finish, sharpening and handles down pat, making some blades from Hitachi steel.

I did a group of blades last night in several of these steels. I'll try and snap a photo later and put it in this thread.
 
Yes, Stacy!!! Photos please!!!!! Looking closer at the Dictum site....the suminagashi Stacy mentioned comes with different core steels. There is, of course, white steel, blue steel, VG-10, and SG2. SG2 I am not familiar with at all. Headed to Zknives right now to look it up. Turns out to be a powder stainless steel with 64rc working hardness. C: 1.3-1.5 Cr:14-26 Mo:2.3-3.3 V:1.8-2.2 Mn: .4 Si: .5
 
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bladsmth said:
The main thing that makes Hitachi papered steels stand out in the crowd is quality. We all have read threads about problems with this or that steel, bad batches, funny quench results, etc......you don't find those threads about Hitachi paper steels.
Click to expand...
That probably is indeed the case- but, not many makers at all in the US are using it, and consumers aren't really the ones ever posting threads about that sort of thing. Who knows, maybe they screw up sometimes too. Dunno, the Japanese are often pretty close-mouthed about the products they are proud of, I don't know that Hitachi would issue a press release if some of their steel was shipped flawed! Or if they did in Japan, that we'd hear about it here.

That's just a minor objection, but I have seen it theorized several times (and it makes sense to me) that Hitachi won't ship steel over here in large part due to some international "prestige" issues. If there is one thing Japanese culture is proud of, it may be its steel... several times I've seen makers want to do a group buy, or some maker try to buy in the "necessary quantity" to get it shipped to the US, only to be ultimately met with frustration.

Please to interpret the above with all the necessary PC blandishments to render it inoffensive.

If you have been messing with hamon on white steel Stacy, I would love to see shots of that!
 
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