Question re: Muskrats vs. Trappers

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pinetree

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Jun 24, 2005
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Ok, the Muskrat vs. Trapper is just and example. I'm looking at getting another Queen. I only have two traditionial slipjoints, a Boker Barlow and a Case Mini-Trapper. I noticed they both have the blades coming off of one end where as the Muskrat the blades come from both ends. In the case of a Muskrat, do the blades share a spring? Is the knife slimmer? Is one design stronger then the other?

As for the Queen, I like the Whittler, but the Jack's are drawing my attention. I like the slimline of serpentine Jack, but the Dogleg looks easier on the pocket with its rounded end.

Once again two blades, one end... I have also learned I like a large and small blade like a Barlow rather than my Trapper.

Thanks,
tjg
 
The one muskrat I own has two springs. It is slimmer than the trapper I have by the same maker but not by much.
 
The one Muskrat that I have is the Case/Tony Bose collaboration. The two blades share one spring but it's not a particularly slim knife.

I believe the traditional Muskrat pattern has two clip point blades. The Case that I have is a "Hawbaker" Muskrat which has one clip and one Wharncliffe blade.
 
In the case of my one Muskrat, a Canal Street, it has two springs. I assume two springs (one per blade) are stronger than one. My Muskrat is not a particularly slim knife. The blade tangs are fairly thick, and they mate up with fairly thick springs.

Canoes tend to share a spring, and be very slim. So do pen knives, Mini Copperheads, and probably a few others I can't think of.

Whittlers are an interesting case, as there are different blade and spring combinations. Generally there are two springs on one end that taper or are wedged to form a "one blade wide" spring at the other end, which supports the main blade. That main blade then has a thicker tang to mate up with the dual springs, providing greater strength for the whittling task. Some makers shim the main blade to make it all work, while others take great pride in engineering an elegant solution. I have several different designs of whittler, and none are exceedingly slim, but the Boker 286 series is the slimmest. It uses tapered springs with no wedge.

One thing I've always wanted to know: Does the term "equal end" refer to any knife with blades at both ends, an equal number of blades at each end, or blades of the same size at each end? Similarly, do knives with all blades at one end fall into the general "Jack" category? So that both Barlows and Harness Jacks are technically "jack knives", but a Canoe is not?

-- Sam
 
Hi. For the whittler.... IMO, rather than two springs forming a one-blade wide spring, it is a slightly thicker master blade across two springs. The springs themselves may narrow slightly but merge to give extra support for the blade.
 
Does the term "equal end" refer to any knife with blades at both ends...
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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think "equal end" refers to the handle shape, if both ends of the handles/bolsters are the same.

Similarly, do knives with all blades at one end fall into the general "Jack" category?
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No, I don't think so. Jack is a particular pattern with a distinctive handle shape. Barlows, trappers, folding hunters, etc. are other patterns that also generally have blades only at one end.

-Bob
 
some share springs some don't share springs, the single spring rats are almost always slimmer than a double spring rat, but the single spring rat is more likely to get a weak spring faster than a double spring.
 
ParaGlock said:
One thing I've always wanted to know: Does the term "equal end" refer to any knife with blades at both ends, an equal number of blades at each end, or blades of the same size at each end? Similarly, do knives with all blades at one end fall into the general "Jack" category? So that both Barlows and Harness Jacks are technically "jack knives", but a Canoe is not?

-- Sam
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I'm no expert, but I beleve the term "equal end" refers to the handle being the same size on both ends, and "jack knife" refers to a knife with two blades on the same end. There is more to it than that, but that is as much as I can remember at one time ;)
 
do knives with all blades at one end fall into the general "Jack" category?
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Generally speaking, "jack knife" is sort of a generic term for any simple folding knife. There are many jack patterns, most having the blades on one end. There are regular jacks, serpentine jacks, trapper jacks, barehead jacks and a dozen or so others of varying design. The barlow is a barehead jack with an extended bolster. However, there are double end jacks too. The moose is a double end jack, as is the canoe. The muskrat is a double end variant of the premium trapper jack, built on a serpentine frame.
 
smiling-knife said:
Hi. For the whittler.... IMO, rather than two springs forming a one-blade wide spring, it is a slightly thicker master blade across two springs. The springs themselves may narrow slightly but merge to give extra support for the blade.
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Thanks, I was trying to say something much like that...

RE: "Jacks". Almost sorry I asked. :) Seriously though, thanks for the info.

-- Sam
 
Arathol said:
Generally speaking, "jack knife" is sort of a generic term for any simple folding knife. There are many jack patterns, most having the blades on one end. There are regular jacks, serpentine jacks, trapper jacks, barehead jacks and a dozen or so others of varying design. The barlow is a barehead jack with an extended bolster. However, there are double end jacks too. The moose is a double end jack, as is the canoe. The muskrat is a double end variant of the premium trapper jack, built on a serpentine frame.
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Now I am confused :confused: . I thought jack knives had one, two or more blades at one end. What distinguishes a jack knife with blades at both ends from other knives with two or more blades at two ends? Thanks in advance.
 
What distinguishes a jack knife with blades at both ends from other knives with two or more blades at two ends?
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Well, most jacks do have the blades on one end, but there are some variations that are double ended knives. These are made using the same frames as the single end jacks, so can be classified as double end jacks. The muskrat is a prime example. It is built using the same frame as the serpentine or premium jack, but its a double end variation of that knife. Some folders, such as pen knives and whittlers, are unique designs that don't use traditional jack knife frames. They are generally smaller knives, with a higher level of fit and finish and mostly somewhat more epensive to make.
Much of which knife is called what is in how you look at it. Theres a lot of cross-overs and much blurring of the lines between definitions.
 
So from what I can tell there is no advantage of a Muskrat to a Trapper. I personally prefer the wider "butt" of a Trapper or Barlow for gripping. Probably order the dogleg Jack, maybe i'll go crazy and ge the Whitler too. As I tell my wife, knives are a lot cheaper than guns... Of course I'm headed to the CMP to pick up an M1 carbine as soon as they are available.

Thanks,
tjg
 
I don't really care for trappers with a spey blade. I find the spey blade totally useless.
 
I have the Queen dogleg jack and whittler in cocobolo. I enjoy them both very much. They are rotated in my edc and used often. The nail nick for the pen blade on the dogleg is rather small and I often chip nails as its hard to get the pen blade out, but it's still a great knife. The handles are darker than when I got them and blades are scary sharp. Enjoy whatever one or two you get!
 
pinetree said:
So from what I can tell there is no advantage of a Muskrat to a Trapper.
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Well, I find there to be one advantage for the muskrat/moose pattern over the trapper pattern.
The fact that you have the 2 blades at opposite sides of the muskrat/moose gives it a higher degree of symmetry regarding geometry as well as weight distribution.
I personally find that kind of knife to be more pocketfriendly than a knife where all of the blades are attached to the same end (such as the case with a trapper).
That's why I prefer to carry moose. :D
Other than that, I can't see any advantage to one pattern over the other.

/ Karl
 
Most muskrats have the same type of blade. The Case Muskrat I had years ago had two Turkish clip blades, which I liked a lot b/c it's my favorite clip blade. If you don't like the spey blade, it's an option to think about.
 
Being a trapper, I don't like trappers. That long spey is sort of useless. The muskrat is alot more useful, having two clip blades for initial skinning cuts. A short spey on a stockman is fine for cleaning a pipe bowl.
 
rzwieg said:
Being a trapper, I don't like trappers. That long spey is sort of useless. The muskrat is alot more useful, having two clip blades for initial skinning cuts. A short spey on a stockman is fine for cleaning a pipe bowl.
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No, no, the long spey is at it's best for getting the last of the peanut butter out of the jar! :D Heheh, I learned that here.
 
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