Question regarding Rick Hinderer & ZT models

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tuckerone1

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Jun 15, 2014
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Can anyone explain how closely ZT models represent the knives made by Rick Hinderer? What are the differences with respect to cost? How much more will I pay for an RH model vs it's comparable ZT model?
Any help W/these questions is greatly appreciated.
 
Well the ZT collabs I do not think are designed to be "lesser" versions of whatever knives Rick Hinderer makes. Rather they are different designs that are made to expand the ZT line up. They are just fine in my eyes, I carry a 0560BW most days. As far as the cost is concerned, that is readily available from retailers, with respect to the knives that Rick h sells, you get a better price if you can buy directly. Otherwise you end up paying the secondary market price. How much more you pay is subjective and depends on where you buy, what condition, what blade style, steel, and handle color you decide on. All things not being equal of course. That is my take on it.
 
So I'll set this up as (ZT model)-(approximate Hinderer model)-(approximate Hinderer price difference factory direct)-(approximate price Hinderer difference secondary/dealer). All prices are my own estimates, are a thus very rough, so please keep this in mind.

(0566)-(3" XM-18 flipper Spanto)-(+$230)-(+$350)
(0550)-(3.5" XM-18 non-flipper Spanto)-(+$185)-(+$550)
(0562)-(3.5" XM-18 flipper Slicer)-(+$165)-(+$525)
(0560)-(XM-24 flipper Spanto)-(+$300)-(+$500)
(0392)-(Eklipse)-(+$50)-(+$475)
(0180)-(FieldTac)-Price comparison excluded as I couldn't find table prices for the Fieldtac

Also keep in mind that generally the grinds are fairly different so direct model comparisons are tricky at best. The 0392 is probably the closest to the Hinderer version but it is still quite different.
 
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KAEDC said:
So I'll set this up as (ZT model)-(approximate Hinderer model)-(approximate Hinderer price difference factory direct)-(approximate price Hinderer difference secondary/dealer). All prices are my own estimates, are a thus very rough, so please keep this in mind.

(0566)-(3" XM-18 flipper Spanto)-(+$230)-(+$350)
(0550)-(3.5" XM-18 non-flipper Spanto)-(+$185)-(+$550)
(0562)-(3.5" XM-18 flipper Slicer)-(+$165)-(+$525)
(0560)-(XM-24 flipper Spanto)-(+$300)-(+$500)
(0392)-(Eklipse)-(+$50)-(+$475)
(0180)-(FieldTac)-Price comparison excluded as I couldn't find table prices for the Fieldtac

Also keep in mind that generally the grinds are fairly different so direct model comparisons are tricky at best. The 0392 is probably the closest to the Hinderer version but it is still quite different.
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Can I go ahead and preorder a 392 from you for $50? :)


Edit: It is also worth noting that Kershaw (KAI/ZT/Kershaw) has a few knives that are based on Hinderer design that you could try out for much less. The Cryo, Cryo II, Thermite... there could be others. I am NOT saying that these are directly comparable to knives made by Rick, but it lets you get your foot wet for just a little money.
 
Gonna level with you, man. With all due respect, the prices that Hinderers go for are insane. Naturally, I'm referring to the mark up on the secondary market. Brand new from the ranch they go for around $385, which doesn't seem bad at all after you take a look at the exchange and find them going for $500-700. But keep in mind you need to be military, law enforcement or something in that field to qualify for the factory price. At least that's what I've heard.

In regards to ZT, well I've owned plenty of their Hinderer models and I must say they do a great job of nailing these knives. From blade shapes to ergonomics, from full titanium locksides to G-10 presentation sides, I strongly believe ZT gets all the classic Hinderer characteristics down. I've owned several 0550s, an 0551, an 0561 and an 0566 and I have not once felt what you might call "underknifed."

When it comes to materials and build quality, you'll find some Hinderer fans that say ZT doesn't hold a candle to an actual Hinderer. And that may be well and true to some people, but considering you can get a ZT flipper with premium steel and Ti framelock for well under $200, I just don't see the point in paying $400 more for the real thing. And in some cases, ZT uses better materials. For example, the new 0562CF will feature Hinderer's slicer grind on an M390 blade, KVT bearings instead of nylon washers and a full carbon fiber presentation side scale for a lot less than a base model Hinderer ($240ish vs. $385-$600ish). Not to mention the handle shape is about as close to an XM as ZT has ever done before.

Keep in mind this is all my opinion, man. I just wanted to help answer your question, as so many other members have helped me in the past.
 
grownstar said:
Gonna level with you, man. With all due respect, the prices that Hinderers go for are insane. Naturally, I'm referring to the mark up on the secondary market. Brand new from the ranch they go for around $385, which doesn't seem bad at all after you take a look at the exchange and find them going for $500-700. But keep in mind you need to be military, law enforcement or something in that field to qualify for the factory price. At least that's what I've heard.
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Very rarely they do open to the public flash sales via their website. Sign-up for the newsletter and/or keep an eye on their FB/Twitter for those kinds of announcement thats how I got my Eklipse direct from the Ranch. Your F5 skills must be lucky to win that game tho lol.
 
KAEDC said:
Very rarely they do open to the public flash sales via their website. Sign-up for the newsletter and/or keep an eye on their FB/Twitter for those kinds of announcement thats how I got my Eklipse direct from the Ranch. Your F5 skills must be lucky to win that game tho lol.
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Hahaha I'll be the first to admit my F5 skills are lacking.
 
Honestly I just have a really convenient job for those kinds of things ^^; bad for the wallet tho.
 
I've had two XM-18's...a 3" slicer and 3.5" spanto-grind. The smaller knife is somewhat like a small Sebenza in size, but twice as heavy. The larger knife often is reported to have a weak detent (like mine), and the blade would/could open partially in my pocket. I sold both rather quickly. They might be fine for emergency workers, but a waste of money in most instances...IMO, obviously.
I've had many ZT's. They are very nicely-made folders, still very heavy-duty capable, and don't cost a mint.
If you carry for casual use, skip the Hinderer and get something lighter than a brick.
IF you're a cop or EMS and can buy from Rick, then of course consider the Hinderer.

...and, since I just saw that this is my 5,000th post, I'll just add this note:
I carry an Umnumzaan every day. Second choice: large Sebenza. Third: Spyderco Sage 2 (great knife, 3" blade)
 
Sonnydaze said:
...and, since I just saw that this is my 5,000th post, I'll just add this note:
I carry an Umnumzaan every day. Second choice: large Sebenza. Third: Spyderco Sage 2 (great knife, 3" blade)
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So which one are you giving away for this momentous occasion? :D
 
After taking apart all the ZT and the Hinderer models and going through them the ZT models are amazing values but except for the 550 not quite as rugged as the Hinderers. It's not a difference I feel many would ever utilize. The KVT knives are susceptible to sand and dirt in the bearings. The 0562 has about half the blade thickness removed from the pivot area to accommodate the KVT bearing in a slim package. This obviously weakens this area of the knife. The titanium lock side on some ZT models is relieved for weight savings, and not as thick as Hinderer uses.

Even the venerable 550 doesn't offer the Spanto grind so not quite as rugged as a Spanto XM18.

But the ZT are extremely well made and great value, although not quite XM capable. For the price difference the ZT really makes sense for those who don't need that last bit of invincibility.
 
tuckerone1 said:
Can anyone explain how closely ZT models represent the knives made by Rick Hinderer? What are the differences with respect to cost? How much more will I pay for an RH model vs it's comparable ZT model?
Any help W/these questions is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

The ZT Hinderer models are great, buy a couple, find your favorite and when you want to compare the original Rick Hinderer to them you'll see the differences. Some slight, some more apparent (it'll be subjective as to wether they matter much to you). To me it was no contest between the RH and the collabs. Love my ZT collabs but I do feel there is a substantial difference between them and the original. The great thing is that you can buy a user XM and chances are you won't loose any money if you decide to sell it. I would go ZT first and then if you decide you want more down the line you can always upgrade to the original.
 
grownstar said:
So which one are you giving away for this momentous occasion? :D
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Just did. Gave away three Caly3's (ZDP), one Caly3 (SB), one TSF Beast, a SurviveKnife GSO 3.5, a ZT 0360 and an Endura (inscribed), and I have one Techno ready to mail...once I get my grandkid's mailing address.

At this point, I just give knives to relatives. I've given about sixty various knives (from SAKs to ZT's) to deployed military and LE during the last year or two. I'm pretty well down the trail at this point and do what I can for relatives and close friends...

I just don't do any more GAW's for you folks. But I try not to sign up for any either...although it's a great practice.

Don aka Sonnydaze:)
 
In a nutshell, the Hinderer XM models are not designed to be a tool for everyone / the masses; as they are designed for use by certain individuals and incorporate features that work well with gloved hand(s).

The ZTs have a more mass-market appeal / design and offer elements that cater to more people's pockets.

With the products from both companies in hand it becomes obvious the added quality in materials and craftsmanship found in the Hinderer knives over the ZTs. Blurring the lines a bit is the recent limited edition officially authorized Eklipse clone that ZT is producing w/ Hinderer made parts.
 
Sonnydaze said:
Just did. Gave away three Caly3's (ZDP), one Caly3 (SB), one TSF Beast, a SurviveKnife GSO 3.5, a ZT 0360 and an Endura (inscribed), and I have one Techno ready to mail...once I get my grandkid's mailing address.

At this point, I just give knives to relatives. I've given about sixty various knives (from SAKs to ZT's) to deployed military and LE during the last year or two. I'm pretty well down the trail at this point and do what I can for relatives and close friends...

I just don't do any more GAW's for you folks. But I try not to sign up for any either...although it's a great practice.

Don aka Sonnydaze:)
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Very awesome of you, Don! :thumbup:

And I hope you know I was joking around, brother.
 
grownstar said:
A knife doesn't need a spanto grind to be rugged as all hell. Have you seen this vid of some Russian hard use testing his 0550?

http://youtu.be/AW0TVkcBFkw
Click to expand...

Yes I have seen the video. It's not a question that the 550 is tough, the question was how does the ZT model compare with the genuine Hinderer.

The answer is regardless of how tough the 550 is, it's still not quite to the extreme as a genuine Spanto XM18. Whether that level of extra durability is necessary or warrants the extra $$ is definitely debatable. But it's not questionable in my mind that the genuine Hinderer will handle more extreme use.
 
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