Question to Knifenut1013 on Blade Steel 'Singing'

C

Chris "Anagarika"

Joined
Mar 7, 2001
Messages
4,608
Jason,

When watching one of your video, you mentioned that from experience, a good blade steel hardened almost to it's max potential can 'sing' when being sharpened.

When I recalled, long time back when I had many 'Rostfrei' balisongs, and still using a single natural stone (from hardware stone, more like a sediment stone, but quite smooth), I remember that I found that those steels sang too. Could it be that the steels were also hardened quite to the max potential? Is there further theory on this?

I'm really intrigued.

Note: the 'rostfrei' balisongs were the kind that sold by a member here as well, forgot his name, but about 5-10$ and he liked to demonstrate the balisongs stabbing through pennies without damage. It was about 10 years ago, so my memory is not that accurate anymore. The blade singing is something I don't forget though.
 
I have no explanation for it except that when the steel feels very hard on the stones it will "sing"

I am noticing it more currently as I work on more kitchen cutlery that has much higher hardness ratings though its still very random.

I have a feeling its related to the final density of the steel when given a more intensive heat treat process.
 
Any videos of singing steel? This has piqued my curiosity, now I feel like I need to get the steel to sing before I'll be happy with my blade :rolleyes:
 
It's the 30 mins or so when Jason was reprofiling Three Sisters' Forge.

Jason,
Thanks for response. It's also interesting that in my experience, it only happened when reprofiling (new factory edge) buy once the edge has conformed to my angle, they don't sing anymore.
 
knifenut1013 said:
I have no explanation for it except that when the steel feels very hard on the stones it will "sing"

I am noticing it more currently as I work on more kitchen cutlery that has much higher hardness ratings though its still very random.

I have a feeling its related to the final density of the steel when given a more intensive heat treat process.
Click to expand...


Do you mean that harder steels make a higher pitch sound on the stones as compared to softer ones?
 
I've never experienced this with a knife but I have noticed similar things with grinding steel on a bench grinder. When taking a burr or rounding a corner or whatever, when grinding a softer piece of steel say 1018 cold rolled carbon, very common steel, you get a dull lower pitched ring. Its not really a ring though more of a uh tone I guess you could say.

When sharpening a High speed steel lathe tool or touching up and end mill or a drill that has been hardened to 60+ HRc you get a much higher pitched tone from the same grinder/stone. It is a repeatable experience. So maybe there is some kind of correlation between the steel "singing" and the final denisty and hardness achieved on the steel.
 
singularity35 said:
Do you mean that harder steels make a higher pitch sound on the stones as compared to softer ones?
Click to expand...

It tends to happen more with harder steels but hardness is not always a factor. I've had steels of lower hrc ratings sing also but these steels still had that same dense feel on the stone. To be specific ESEE 1095 and a livesay 1095 blade both had the same feel of density but ground at different rates due to the difference in hardness. Both would sing on the stone.

A harmonic vibration is probably the best as I can describe it.
 
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I just stropped my yojimbo 2, and "don't worry be happy" came outta nowhere , I thought I was crazy, but now i know it was just the knife, thanks for the clarification guys, I thought I was losing it.
 
My mother had a kitchen knife, a 10" French Chefs design that she got as a wedding present from her father (he gave her a whole kitchen full of what a new bride would need,) who was a butcher. When I would 'steel' that knife it would ring out like a bell, and although I've owned a lot of top-of-the line kitchen knives, I've never run across one that produced that sound. I never really thought of it again until my parents passed away, and the contents of their kitchen sold off by an agent. Too late to find that knife. I'd love to have it today.

Stitchawl
 
The 'singing' I mentioned is different from the 'ringing' sound that sometimes emitted when checking sharpness, i.e. one tramontina kitchen knife in particular aleays ring when the sharpness is tested by rubbing thumb across the edge.

What interested me is the reference to 'high quality steel' Jason mentioned, and he definitely has wider range of knives he sharpen to form a more sampled opinion or perhaps theory.
 
My 4.3" fixed 3v 61rc 0.046" thick blade (no handle yet) will sings quite distinctly when a burr on the edge when sharpening. Also similar to Chris mentioned about ringing, this knife will rings when pick on the spine with my thumb or check for sharpness or flick the blade with my finger nail. Well, will see if this blade harmonic/resonance still here after I put a handle on it.
 
For me its always occurred on thicker blades that were unable to flex thus making it possible for the harmonic vibration to resonate. On a thinner blade that has flex the resonance seems to be somewhat absorbed by the blade itself.
 
Our local blacksmiths and some knowledgeable guys tap knives and bolos with their fingernails. They say the sound can indicate hardness. A more prolonged, higher pitch, pure tone sound means that the blade has good hardness, at least that's what they say.
 
My Marbles (Imacasa) jungle machete rings all the time when chopping or if you tap it with a fingernail. Been a while since I had it on a stone as I usually just touch it up with a loaded strop, I don't recall it singing on the stone. None of my other machetes do that - not even a little.
 
Back when I was a youngster I did quite a bit of saber fencing. I always chose my blades by sound. The French Prieur steel was always superior. The ones that sang just right were the most durable.
 
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