Question: Vertical blade play in regards to traditional lockback folders

eschwebach

eschwebach

Joined
Jul 16, 2012
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Excuse my ignorance here, I am just starting to delve into the traditional folder arena. I have owned a couple Case knives, and have several SAK's but that is about it. I mostly own modern folders. I recently purchased a GEC Farm & Field #99, and a CRKT Centofante Tribute. Both have what I would term significant vertical blade play. I called the store I received them from and they are telling me this is normal for a knife with pin construction and thus want to hit me with a restocking fee. One of the Case knives I owned was a Copperlock and it did not have any blade play.

Is this indeed normal? I guess I can understand it for the Centofante Tribute since it is a Chinese produced budget knife, but the #99 was over $50.
 
Most lockbacks I've handled have had some amount of vertical movement. It does not affect the performance of the tool.
 
its common flaw with lockbacks, but a flaw nonetheless, I would be inclined to send the more expensive GEC back.
 
IMO , it's hit or miss wether it'll have vertical play,or not.
 
Is it just a matter of how these particular lockbacks are constructed? I have lock backs from Cold Steel, and Spyderco, and they are rock solid.
 
eschwebach said:
Both have what I would term significant vertical blade play. I called the store I received them from and they are telling me this is normal for a knife with pin construction and thus want to hit me with a restocking fee.
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Just how much blade play do you consider "significan vertical blade play" - 1/32"; 1/16"; ?????? I'd rather have no blade play in my knives but will accept a minor amount of blade play as most of it can be fixed/adjusted.

I'd certainly stop dealing with a dealer/store that says; ".......this is normal for a knife with pin construction.....". It isn't normal but does happen from time to time. As VCM3 says - it's hit and miss in some cases.
 
I'm battling a little worse than .500 with Buck lockbacks that I've owned. The 112 shown here is one of several Bucks I've owned that had or developed vertical play. On some, the problem got worse over time.

In contrast, I've never had an Opinel develop blade play, and truth be told, I beat on them worse too. The camming action of the lock ring is a big part of it.


Buck 112 & Opinel #8 by Pinnah, on Flickr
 
Modoc ED said:
Just how much blade play do you consider "significan vertical blade play" - 1/32"; 1/16"; ?????? I'd rather have no blade play in my knives but will accept a minor amount of blade play as most of it can be fixed/adjusted.

I'd certainly stop dealing with a dealer/store that says; ".......this is normal for a knife with pin construction.....". It isn't normal but does happen from time to time. As VCM3 says - it's hit and miss in some cases.
Click to expand...

I would say it is more around the 1/32". I will return both knives and will probably not give my business to this particular online store anymore. Thanks for the feedback guys.
 
eschwebach said:
Is it just a matter of how these particular lockbacks are constructed? I have lock backs from Cold Steel, and Spyderco, and they are rock solid.
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It is a matter of the internal design. Both Spyderco and Cold Steel currently have modified lock designs which make it easier to produce a lock back knife with no vertical play. Older CS and Spyderco lock back knives sometimes did have a bit of vertical play just as the current Traditionals do.

As was stated above, it does not affect function.
 
The vehicle play has been a big headache and learning curve for me. Truly, most of the traditionals I see (queen, gec) have some. For a long time I sent them all back, but I am much more forgiving these days because it really is a very difficult thing to completely eliminate.
 
I bought a 99 and it had vertical blade play. Sent it back and requested another with solid lockup. The distributor exchanged it "no questions asked" and made up the shipping on my next purchase. The replacement is fine, no play.
I know of at least one other 99 out there with blade play. Some folks can deal with it. I am not one of them.
 
Frank, could you say more on this.

Vertical play has been discussed on the Buck forum with no resolution. One poster noted that his Bucks had play but his Sydercos didn't. Would love to hear your thoughts on the design attributes that control it.

Some speculation that its related to smoother but softer bronze bushings.
 
I won't buy a GEC lockback because I can buy a Buck, USA Schrade or spyderco with solid locks.

I had hoped it was the design and not the fit and finish. If design is the issue what is stopping GEC from using a better design?

Thanks,

Kevin

knarfeng said:
It is a matter of the internal design. Both Spyderco and Cold Steel currently have modified lock designs which make it easier to produce a lock back knife with no vertical play. Older CS and Spyderco lock back knives sometimes did have a bit of vertical play just as the current Traditionals do.

As was stated above, it does not affect function.
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All the Buck 110s I've ever owned or handled have had a small amount of vertical play, and that's more than a few.
As for Spyderco, my experience with their lockback knives is limited to a few Delicas, a couple Enduras, and a couple of the MBC-rated locks like the Chinook for example, and I haven't felt a single one that's completely free of vertical movement.

The Queen Mountain Man that's on my belt right now is completely solid with zero vertical play (I just pulled it out to double-check).

Of course, YMMV.
 

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pinnah said:
Frank, could you say more on this.

Vertical play has been discussed on the Buck forum with no resolution. One poster noted that his Bucks had play but his Sydercos didn't. Would love to hear your thoughts on the design attributes that control it.

Some speculation that its related to smoother but softer bronze bushings.
Click to expand...

I have no details. I have a fair memory for things I read. I read comments Sal made on the Spyderco Forum that they had fussed with the design details of the locking mechanism of their lock backs to eliminate movement in the open position. He didn't go into detail of exactly what they had done, but it didn't sound like bushings. More like the precise shape of the lock bar and the receiver for it. If I remember the comments, he said that unless you did fussing with the design, getting a production lock back without blade play is kind of luck-of-the-draw. I figure he knows a heckuva lot more about it than me.

For reference.
My Queen Mountain man has a tiny bit of play.
My newish CS Voyager has no blade play.
My Native V (latest and greatest version) has no blade play.
My Delica 3 (It's an older version) has blade play.
The new Buck lock backs I gave as gifts last year had a very small amount of play.
My 110 that I got in the late 60's has a fair amount of movement, and it has never failed me.
 
I've got a mixed bag of older lock backs, Puma, Gerber, Lakota, Case, Schrade. I just did a quick wiggle test and about half of them have a little vertical play. I'd classify it as very minimal in all instances. Not enough to hamper performance. Not enough for me to see it as a flaw.
 
From my (albeit limited) experience GEC seems the serial offender here. Both of the ones I had displayed it, noticeable.

Moki: None

Rough Rider 2 examples, none

Schrade China 1 example none.

Böker 1 knife, minimal.

Buck 2 knives none (more modern types though)

Spyderco 2 examples, none,

In GEC's case I suspect both design and F&F. I would not buy another LB from them again until I hear of better consistency.
 
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