Question. What edge angle do you use on your working knives and bladed tools?

S

Squashfan

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Jun 6, 2012
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Heavyhanded has gotten me curious what the resident knife sharpeners, new and experienced, use as their edge angles for EDC. My edges stay around 40 degrees inclusive (20 per side) because I thought that any lower and I would trade a lot of edge holding for sharpness. BTW, I use stainless steels almost exclusively. 20 degrees is the angle on most of my axes, machetes and pocket knives. So what do you use for your working/EDC knives? Do you change your angle for axe and machetes? And where do you find that the edge holding drops off in relation to the lower angles? I hope to learn from this thread.

Thanks in advance,
Chares
 
All I do are knives, so I can't help with axes and machetes. For my knives, the edge depends on the steel. Whatever I carry gets used for the same kinds of chores. I don't have different knives for different uses, I just use whatever I'm carrying for whatever I need to do. Most of my stuff is S30V or 154CM and those come off the Sharpmaker, so I use the 30 deg setting for a back bevel and 40 deg for a microbevel. My M4 Gayle Bradley is a little thinner than that. I haven't done anything with my M390 Barrage, so it's at whatever the factory did.

I touch up with a strop more than I actually sharpen, so the microbevel doesn't last long before it becomes a "micro convex" bevel.
 
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Rule of thumb: as thin as possible but thick enough, which i find out through a couple of tests after sharpening as well as through feedback from people for whom i sharpen.
One example are a few large Busse chopping knives made from INFI steel, which we found to be able to handle 35 degrees inclusive edge angles while chopping into very hard old railroad ties (and for chopping average green wood an edge angle of 30 degrees inclusive proved sufficient)
Most current knife steels in modern folders & fixed blades can easily handle 30 or 25 degrees inclusive, and it's also a misconception that thinner edge angles result in faster blunting.
One of my EDC knives is this Spyderco Endura in ZDP-189 which i hollow ground myself on a Tormek, and which edge angle measures 17.5 degrees inclusive with a tiny convex bevel.
Thickness of the edge behind that bevel is 0.2 mm, and it handles all my normal EDC cutting tasks without any problems.





 
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I have run my EDC knives as low as 8 degrees per side (dps) without undue loss of edge or damage. But, that blade was only used for cutting. I generally go with 12 dps and a 15 dps microbevel now, even for rough work, like cutting caulk off concrete panels. If I know I'll be scraping with the edge, like I use my Delica, I'll bump up to 17/20. I use my Delica for scraping rust off old pipe sometimes, or paint off pipe. I like a trapper or stockman pattern folder for versatility. That 8 dps edge was the clip point on a 2 blade trapper. The other was for rough work and was at 17/20. Even at 8 dps, the clip blade would split soda bottle caps and cut plastic tubing without damage.
 
I have a Puma Stag Bowie 116396 with an edge of 30dps. I find it too steep to do anything but just slice meat. I like a knife to be able to dress game but also carve a couple tent pegs if need be. I might bring it down to about 20dps and see what happens. My BK9 is 20dps and seems fine at that angle. Hopefully my Puma will be too....
 
I go as low as 11 degrees on a chisel grind Sashimi slicer. Usually about 15-18% per side on a carry folder.
It all depends on the end use of the knife?
 
It depends a great deal on the geometry of the bevels and how thin they were ground. A blade taken to a zero edge will cut differently than one taken to .015 and sharpened with the same inclusive angle. The bevel angle itself also plays it's role. Thinner edges with more acute sharpening angles will not hold up as well as ones that are more obtuse. When you start grinding edges to 20 degrees inclusive you had better have the correct heat treat behind the edge, in order to carry this type of sharp as well as selecting the correct steel that will give you the desired traits.
Edges are a trade off between strength and sharp, heat treating not considered. When some one mentions they have ground a "working edge" on their edc i interpret this as having found the best option for that particular knife. They have traded a little strength for a little sharp. If its a scalpel they have traded strength for extreme sharpness. The edge will deteriorate quickly if the blade is used roughly or if the heat treat does not support the edge. You can add longivity to a thin sharp edge by using a steel made to support this style of blade or you can lower the HRC making the edge less likely to chip.
There is no set rule other than to build a blade with consideration for its use and grind the edge that will support the work being done. If its chopping wood its one thing, if your removing someones liver its another. Its all a trade off.
 
For me, all I cut at work with my folders is frozen boxes. So I widen factory bevel just a little, I remove as much shoulder as possible so it glides into boxes like air.

my work knives (sushi) are extremely thin, but HRC is usually very high for japanese slicers (theyre not made for any impact, so very very thin).
 
Thanks for all the input! I think I am going to try a 26 degrees inclusive and a 30 degrees inclusive to see which holds up better. That is if I can freehand the necessary angles. I guess we will see.
 
The general procedure I've seen recommended is to keep lowering the angle until you start to see damage. Then you'll know what angle is needed by your uses. After that, go back up just a few degrees and add a microbevel. That should stop the damage and give the best cutting ability without damage. One must keep in mind that some uses will damage any knife edge; see above reference to caulk cutting on concrete.
 
I just reprofiled my m4 Contego to 28° inclusive, with a 30º micro bevel.

I've gotten some rolling in the belly while cutting my food (I want a patina), and though the food was cut on a plate, I was extremely cautious. I've done the same with a full 30º edge and didn't have any issues so I've gotta figure this out.

I had some chipping on a Spyderco Native (s30v) at 30º inclusive, but that saw fairly rough use.

Outside of those examples I've found 25-30º to be very serviceable as a compromise between sharpness and durability.
 
Strigamort said:
I just reprofiled my m4 Contego to 28° inclusive, with a 30º micro bevel.

I've gotten some rolling in the belly while cutting my food (I want a patina), and though the food was cut on a plate, I was extremely cautious. I've done the same with a full 30º edge and didn't have any issues so I've gotta figure this out.

I had some chipping on a Spyderco Native (s30v) at 30º inclusive, but that saw fairly rough use.

Outside of those examples I've found 25-30º to be very serviceable as a compromise between sharpness and durability.
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Well, I would expect damage on any edge used to cut something on a plate. But if M4 can cut something on a plate without damage that is impressive.

BTW, I love that Endura kwackster sharpened.

When I actually find time to sharpen I will let you guys know of the results.
 
I know, but ya know how crazy we get about edges, geometry, equipment etc...? Apply that in the form of caution while cutting on that plate (I had to lift the brat up to cut all the way through) and, well, I probably shouldn't even have mentioned it. Must have been something I was more careless about. :/
 
Squashfan said:
Thanks for all the input! I think I am going to try a 26 degrees inclusive and a 30 degrees inclusive to see which holds up better. That is if I can freehand the necessary angles. I guess we will see.
Click to expand...

Here is link to an article by my knife guru Mr. Joe Talmadge, Master Bladesmith. He explains sharpening edge angles better than I ever could. The article is worth saving for any serious knife nut.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

To decrease the inclusive edge angle on a Sharpmaker easily just put a shim under the base's end. Then move the shim to the other side of the base for the opposite edge. A small shim that makes a 5 degree rise in the end of the base and sharpening using the 30 degree section of the Sharpmaker for the rods will give you 20 degrees inclusive (30--5-5=20, or 15-5+15-5=20). Your angles will be very precise. A simple protractor will tell you exactly how many degrees you have raised the end of the base.

Make sense?

Any depot store sells a bag of assorted size triangular size shims for a couple of bucks.
 
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Fred.Rowe said:
It depends a great deal on the geometry of the bevels and how thin they were ground. A blade taken to a zero edge will cut differently than one taken to .015 and sharpened with the same inclusive angle. The bevel angle itself also plays it's role. Thinner edges with more acute sharpening angles will not hold up as well as ones that are more obtuse. When you start grinding edges to 20 degrees inclusive you had better have the correct heat treat behind the edge, in order to carry this type of sharp as well as selecting the correct steel that will give you the desired traits.
Edges are a trade off between strength and sharp, heat treating not considered. When some one mentions they have ground a "working edge" on their edc i interpret this as having found the best option for that particular knife. They have traded a little strength for a little sharp. If its a scalpel they have traded strength for extreme sharpness. The edge will deteriorate quickly if the blade is used roughly or if the heat treat does not support the edge. You can add longivity to a thin sharp edge by using a steel made to support this style of blade or you can lower the HRC making the edge less likely to chip.
There is no set rule other than to build a blade with consideration for its use and grind the edge that will support the work being done. If its chopping wood its one thing, if your removing someones liver its another. Its all a trade off.
Click to expand...

Great post!
 
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GatorFlash1 said:
Here is link to an article by my knife guru Mr. Joe Talmadge, Master Bladesmith. He explains sharpening edge angles better than I ever could. The article is worth saving for any serious knife nut.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

To decrease the inclusive edge angle on a Sharpmaker easily just put a shim under the base's end. Then move the shim to the other side of the base for the opposite edge. A small shim that makes a 5 degree rise in the end of the base and sharpening using the 30 degree section of the Sharpmaker for the rods will give you 20 degrees inclusive (30--5-5=20, or 15-5+15-5=20). Your angles will be very precise. A simple protractor will tell you exactly how many degrees you have raised the end of the base.

Make sense?

Any depot store sells a bag of assorted size triangular size shims for a couple of bucks.
Click to expand...

I should read that article. I have been using that website for a couple of years to looks up steel compositions. In fact, I was on my way there to look up Carpenter BDZ1 when I saw your post.
And I will remember your tip about changing angles on the sharpmaker because I have Lansky's long rod version.
 
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