Questions about HI Khukuri tang and scabbard

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cliff355

Joined
Apr 19, 2003
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Recently I acquired an Indian Khukuri from Atlanta Cutlery, and it is such a good chopper that I have decided to get a "real" one from HI. However, I have a couple questions about the HI khukuris and if anyone could shed some light on them it would be much appreciated.

The AC khukuri has a full-length tang, with wooden scales attached by rivets. This is probably a cheaper and less elegant way to do it, but there does not appear to be any way to break that tang, nor will the handle ever slip off. All the HI khukuris seem to have handles made of wood/horn which are drilled to accept "rat-tailed" tangs, and these handles are held on by glue. Does this ever result in broken tangs or handles which come off in mid-stroke? If not, is there any advantage to the HI tang other than appearance?

The AC khukuri came with a chakma and carda (sp?) apparently stamped out of sheet metal for ornamentation only. This is just as well, since they are contained in thin leather tubes attached to the back of the scabbard, which are in turn contained by the leather which covers the scabbard. It seems that if a sharpened carda (sp?) were carried for any length of time, it would wear through and cause damage difficult or impossible to repair. How do the HI scabbards hold up in this regard, and can the HI carda (sp?) hold an edge?

Any information would be appreciated, since I know very little about khukuris and can't find anyone in these parts who does.
 
cliff355-- Welcome to Bladeforums! HI khukuris are available with what is often referred to as a rat tail, or enclosed, tang, but in the case of HI, it's really sort of a misnomer as the tang is quite substantial. I don't see how you could possible break one, even if you were trying. The slab style, or chiruwa, handles are also available on the chiruwa ang khola, the M43, and occasionally on WWII models. The adavantage of the enclosed tang is that it tends to dampen vibration from chopping so your hand doesn't get sore. If you do a search on this forum for chiruwa or chiruwa vs enclosed, you will find tons of info. The general consensus is that the chiruwa tang may be a bit stronger, but not by much, and both styles are so overbuilt in terms of strength that the chance of failure is exceedingly minimal.

The chakmah and karda are both very functional, and in the case of HI, they are hand forged, as is the main blade. The karda takes a good edge and works well as a small utility knife in conjunction with the larger blade of the khukuri. I haven't experienced any problems with mine cutting through the sheath.

Good luck, you came to the right place to find out about khukuris.
--Josh
 
Generally the little leather loops that hold the karda in place hold the knife at the handle. The edge generally floats in free space inside the sheath.
 
The standard tang (not chiruwa styles) goes all the way through the handle, through the brass buttcap, then peened over. So there is a mechanical connection between the tang and buttcap holding everything together.

I suppose it's theoretically possible that the laha (epoxy) around the handle could fail completely, and the buttcap give way, resulting in a ballistic weapon, but the chances are extremely low. Lots lower than dying in a car crash, or an airplane accident, or being hit by a meteorite. There's about a million things that I'd worry about before a handle failure.
 
Originally posted by cliff355

The AC khukuri came with a chakma and carda (sp?) apparently stamped out of sheet metal for ornamentation only. .
Click to expand...

You're in for a neat change there. The HI kardas are very beefy -- the farthest thing from a stamping. IIRC some people go out of their way to thin them down a bit?
 
I bet you won't buy just one HI khukuri, they're quite addictive.
I have one of those indian khuks that a buddy of mine bought from AC, and the HI khuk is many steps up, like a custom knife versus a mass produced knife. You'll be happily shocked to see and feel the differences in weight balance, and construction.

Rat tail tang is a rough description of the HI tang. it is more of a graded tang. The tang is almost half the handle width at the bolster, (so generally about 3/4" by 1/2") and thins down to 1/4" thickness or so at the buttcap. The tang thickness at the bolster ensures there will be little risk of bbreakage at this join.

The "full tang" construction is referred to in the khuk realm as "chiruwa" style, where scales are riveted to the fully exposed tang. any HI models can be obtained in this style, most notable are the Ckiruwa AK and the AK Bowie, and certain other swords and khuks (like the m-43) turn up woth the chiruwa style handle/tang.

Keith
 
If youre impressed by the AC khuk, just wait till you see an HI. The difference in quality, utility, and shear beauty is the difference between apples and oranges.
 
The internal tang is quite strong and enclosing the tang in the handle helps to dampen the felt vibration. So the knife is more comfortable to use. If you prefer HI does produce a number of Chiruwa (full tang) models.

n2s
 
"Rat-tail" is, I guess the generic term.

For HI khuks, "crocodile tail" is more descriptive.
 
My personal preference goes to a "rat tail" tang as it gives less chances to rust. Living in Japan, a humid place, I emphasize rust-proofness.
HI khukuri blades are made of spring steel, which is non stainless steel. A rat tail style exposes less to the air and to your palm and fingers, and moisture is less likely come in between handle slabs and the tang.
Of course you can polish exposed part of the tang in a time while if it rusts, or it may never rust. Laha (glue) between tang and handle slabs well prevents moisture go deep inside. I've had no trouble with my Chiruwa style AK bowie so far.
Anyways, your first HI khukuri is not your last one. You'll own both in a time period. Just a matter of order... Hope you enjoy.
 
Thank you all for your rapid and detailed responses. My reservations about the enclosed tang and karda/scabbard set-up on HI khuks are pretty well resolved. The question is now raised as to which of HI's array of khuks to get. Right now the 18" Ang Khola looks about right for the things I have been trying to do with hatchets, machetes and recently the AC khuk. However, I will probably have to get a lighter one eventually, then a heavier one, then a prettier one for church on Sundays, etc. Anyway, the info is sure appreciated.
 
Cliff: The 18" AK is an excellent choice. For something a bit lighter but still in the same size range, you might want to look at an 18" WWII model as well. You may have noticed a few subtle references to purchasing more than one HI khukuri, and it looks like you are already planning ahead:) . Let me just warn you that if you buy one, the chances are very good that you will end up with more than one. Soon you will begin looking at all your straight knives and wondering why they aren't bent like a proper knife. You'll find yourself buying more personal care products for your khukuris than for yourself. You'll find yourself thinking up reasons to purchase Uncle Bill's crazy specials even when you don't really need them. And, if you're anything like me, you won't regret any of it :D You really have to hold one to appreciate the incredible knives offered by HI. The pictures, nice as the are, don't even come close to doing the knives justice. I'd own ten times as many as I do now if I had the money.
--Josh
 
these are TOUGH blades. All four of mine have the enclosed tang. I have chopped through planks, posts, 3"-4" maple branches and 6"-8" avacado branches with no bending or loosening of anything. The big WWII hits like a hand axe and the momentum of the 25" sirus is terrifying. I used to worry about the "rat tail" tang. I don't anymore. The scabbards are very sturdy and the karda will hold an edge. And I can tell you they're massive but you really have to hold one. My long sirus are 3/8" at the bolster, my WWII is 7/16" thick at the bolster. And quicker than they look. I wont tell you they're magical (but they are;)).

Frank
 
Welcome Cliff! There's not much I can add to the expert advice already given here. No matter what you choose, when you receive the khukuri it will exceed your expectations and there will always be another model that you just have to try.

HI kardas are dandy knives in their own right. The quality normally matches that of the khukuris and you'll be amazed how useful they are. I keep one in the kitchen knife drawer, one on the workbench and another in my desk.
 
Another word of advice, especially with the new Crazy Pala deals, keep an eye on the forum. Great way to buy an HI khuk at a great price, and help out a great cause at the same time. :)
 
Welcome to the Cantina. I won't try to add much to what the rest of the HI forumites have told you.

I don't have any khuks over twenty inches but, the ones I have do more work than any other knife that I have ever had. I will be 68 next month so I have had a knife or two. I don't even use but one straight blade and that is a neck knife that was a gift and I'll not let go of it till Gabriel toots his horn.

I wish there had been an HI to get these knives from when I headed to Viet Nam. The 18" WWII would have been a good weapon of choice for that place or the 18" Sirupati. What ever you get first I don't think you will be disappointed in the HI knife. None of them have let me down.

Again Welcome and enjoy this forum :) :D
 
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