Questions about making a handle for a Leuku Blade

[danielboom]

Hello everyone,

I recently placed an order for a 9 inch Strømeng leuku blade and and thinking of what materials I will use. Im quite interested in making it quite close to what it would look like if bought completely made from the makers, with brass ferrule and brass buttcap held with a pommel.. And am planning on a piece of curly birch for the handle as well but am not sure if for durability sake and strength, if it would be best to go with a block of stabilized birch or of plain curly birch. Have read up some on stabilized wood of how its heavier, more durable and more water resisting? But wanted to ask also if it being stabilized i should wear some kind of mask while sanding and shaping it. Ive only made 2 other personal knives which i am pleased with. I call them personal knives because while theyre not pretty enough to be given or sold to someone else they will work for me just fine.

Any and all advice will be quite appreciated,
Thanks
Daniel

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Puuko style knife handles are pretty easy to do. They can easily be completed with nothing but a drill, files, and sandpaper.
You can purchase the brass ends ,as well as the birch, from most knife supply catalogs.
There are a lot of puuko tutorials online,too.

Filling out your profile will help a lot, as we don't know if you are in Finland or Florida.

 

[12345678910]

Welcome to Shop talk

Stabilized wood is more water resistant & some will still give it a final finish with CA glue or Tru-oil

I say you should wear a respirator for ANY sanding work, not just stabilized.

I've put together a list of links and info, the safety info at the end is especially useful to you.

One book that is not in this list is
http://www.amazon.com/Knifemaking-Complete-Crafting-Handles-Sheaths/dp/188737437X

I've put this together to answer most of a new maker’s questions. I'm sure it will help you too.

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V18

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:

Think thin. A paring knife slices, an axe splits.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then make it in wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
Play with that and see if it “feels right”. If it feels right it usually “looks right“

See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. Google books thread

Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.

Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.

Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, A2,
Or air quenched CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

If you want to heat treat yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel


You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential .
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than youfirst think.

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309



Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here

This is a special Google page that searches BF only.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644%3Aqfobr3dlcra

V18 Edited links August 25, 2011.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Bo Bergman's book is the one to have for Puuko and Scandinavian knives. Sadly, it is out of print and getting very expensive. I have two copies, one to loan friends, and one to keep in the library.

Copies aren't hard to find, but they run from $80 to $200, depending on condition. There is one on ebay froor $60 right now.

 

[Hengelo_77]

Unstabilised birch has been used for hundereds (thousends probobaly) of years. It won't fall apart.
Curly birch and antler combine well IMHO and are used together on many traditional Scandi's.
I also have the book by Bo Bergman. (in German, if you can read German you can order it for around $20,-)
If I look at the book I wouldn't pay $200,- for it. But that is just my oppinion.

 

[danielboom]

Lots of information here guys, thanks and ive got my profile a bit more updated though im not quite sure where everything is for this site yet.. Ive gotten all the materials i need for this knife and have already made the tang hole and shaped the handle.. no before pictures but ive taken a few of how it all will look.. once properly cleaned up and attached!


Here is the knife mostly assembled(loosely) with a knife i used to carved most of the wood off before filing.

Just the knife

Close up of the butt of handle with tang protruding where cap will go

Close up of blade and ferrule

Knife parts

Close up of parts

What i plan to do is fill it with epoxy and under the ferrule and butt cap for a solid handle. What my next question was, is wether or not it is a good idea or at all necesarry to peen the tang either down to the handle and epoxy the buttcap onto it, OR to drill a hole into the butt cap and peen onto that (which i dont really want to do.) and the other alternative is with the JB weld wpoxy i plan to fill the handle with if peening would even be needed or just a kind of "nice touch" or extra measure. How it is now no epoxy or peening the handle is very snug on the tang and i have a hard time getting it off to work on it more as it is.

What i forgot to mention is my two options here are either peening the tang over the butt of the handle then epoxying the butt cap over that to cover it, or forgoe peening at all and just file it off so its flush with the handle and epoxy the butt cap in place. I expect this knife to be a hard worker so im curious what is stronger,

 

[Hengelo_77]

If you epoxy everything right it should be strong enough. (take the slow cure stuff and let it cure in a nice and warm enviroment)
(Also) drilling the butt plate and peening it will give it a nice and classic look IMHO.
Just to confuce you; tapping the tang end and butt plate are also possible
You might want to make a custom butt plate then, with a tapped hole and made flush with the handle after it is screwed in place.

 

[danielboom]

Ah, well now i am torn between either drilling a hole in the cap and peening the pommel on it, or just covering the peen with the butt cap.. but one idea i think i might like is to recess a slight hole in the handle around the tang hole where the pommel piece will fit, peen it then epoxy the butt cap over it.. that way it holds the upper handle parts together tightly during the epoxy settling.. thoughts? advice?

 

[Hengelo_77]

Peening the tang over (birch) wood won't work. The wood isn't strong enough to hold the peened head and you'l probobaly destroy the wood in the proces.
You can overcome this with a washer. Make a reces in the wood that can hold the washer, peen it eand then cover it with your butt plate.

Personaly If I'd peen the tang I'd leave it visable.
Many Scandinavian knives were/are made that way. I think it is charming.
It will give you a 'silver' dot on the 'golden' butt plate.

 

[danielboom]

Well here are more pictures, just need to clean it up inside, polish up the blade and epoxy it all together. ive only epoxy'ed 2 other blades and i used a thin stick to get the epoxy deep down.. not sure if that has been what is needed to help prevent air pockets? anyway, here are the pictures

With butt cap

Close up of butt cap

Close up of recessed pommel

Not sure if it is visible in the low quality pictures i have but the ferrule and butt cap are different shades.. Im not sure if they are both technically brass or one is bronze? but i dont mind it much they both feel good and look good in my eye! just to finish it up.

 

[Hengelo_77]

Brass is copper and zinc, bronce is copper and tin, but the percentages may be different from one piece to an other. That may be the reason of the colour difference.
I can't realy see, how did you end up making the pommel? Is there a washer under the end piece?
I also use thin sticks to get the epoxy in the handle material, but I also put a good layer on the tang itself and then put them together.

 

[danielboom]

Brass is copper and zinc, bronce is copper and tin, but the percentages may be different from one piece to an other. That may be the reason of the colour difference.
I can't realy see, how did you end up making the pommel? Is there a washer under the end piece?
I also use thin sticks to get the epoxy in the handle material, but I also put a good layer on the tang itself and then put them together.

Well here are a few pictures showing them, the ferrule and pommel are both more gold in appearance where the butt cap is a deeper brown, also, ignore the black marks thats just soot where i was fitting haha.

Heres the flip-side