Questions for you guys who use power hammers

ysforge

ysforge

Joined
Jan 10, 2005
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I've finally got another hammer, and love this one, but it got me thinking...

How many heats does it take you guys to forge down say 6" of 1" round bar of high carbon to 1/4" thick by about 1 1/2" wide?

I'm curious to find out what kind of results you guys are getting with what hammers (and weights)

How many of you guys forge blades to shape using power hammers?

how many of you make damascus (welding) with your hammers?

Guess that's about it.

Tony
 
Hi Tony,
I can do it in one heat with my 100# Little Giant but would take another heat to clean it up.

I forge all my blades with the same hammer, can just about do one without picking up a hand hammer. I do dress em up alittle by hand.

I do most of my damascus welding with the same hammer, use the press sometimes but mostly the hammer.

I have 3''X6'' flat dies with all the edges rounded off.

I would rather use my Little Giant than any other machine in the shop :D

Don Hanson lll sunfishforge.com
 
My daddy usually welds with one heat and forges down with one heat.
 
Hey Larrin, what type(s) of hammer(s) is you're dad using?

Thanks Don, you got any video of that thing running? :)

Tony
 
ysforge said:
Hey Larrin, what type(s) of hammer(s) is you're dad using?

Thanks Don, you got any video of that thing running? :)

Tony
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Tony, take a look at Devin Thomas's web site :D Big hammers and I belive another on the way.

No video, but a great idea. Sid from Little Giant was in my shop making damascus a while back and I was talking about getting a bigger hammer, he watched as I forged out a large billet in one heat, he just shook his head and said "you don't need a bigger hammer" Hank Knickmeyer said he has never seen a machanical hammer work as good as this 100# Little Giant. It was a basket case when I got it, I've put alot of work into it.

Don sunfishforge.com
 
Hey Don-

Get something like a Nazel 3 or 4b... then I'll have to move in and be the shop whipping boy just so I can use the hammer every now and again :D

-Nick-
 
NickWheeler said:
Hey Don-

Get something like a Nazel 3 or 4b... then I'll have to move in and be the shop whipping boy just so I can use the hammer every now and again :D

-Nick-
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Nick, I think we would make a great teem, I do all the forging and you finish the knives :D

Don
 
Never could make myself get a power hammer (yet) but the good Lord blessed me with some serious arms, too (about 18 1/2").

The won't last forever, and I know my production would increase but....

I'm a romantic, I guess.
I like old, pretty guns, and big, heavy old hand hammers. ;)
 
You can forge that 1 inch bar down in one heat at high temp or 7 heats at low temp. You can also throw in a few normalizing heats on the way down. You can forge to exact shape or a little oversize. You are free to do as you please.

The greatest influence on your blades will come from what you learn by testing your finished blades for what I call High Endurance Performance. This includes toughness, strength, abrasive rsistance, and ease of sharpening.

You can chose any level of performance you wish, but I strongly suggest that you know the potential of your blades.
The choice is yours.
 
Cool guys,

Don, I know what you mean, My hammer was a basket case as well, and not being a LG there wasn't much info around for it, the guy who had it before me had put almost everything together backwards, and it took me a lot of hours to get everything set up properly, but it's a wonderful hammer now.

I used to have 2 smaller hammers in the shop, a 30 pound and a 40 pound, and I could outwork either one of 'em, so when I got rid of both several years ago, (maybe 7 or 8 years) I didn't bother getting another, untill I saw a 65 pound champion working this may, I was quite impressed with the little hammer, it did more work than the last 100 pound LG I'd gotten to use.

I swing a 6 pund hand hammer as my general forging hammer, and so I've always been able to outwork, or at worst, keep up with, the smaller power hammers I've used, both home made and comercial, but shoot, this champion will move some steel a lot faster than I can by hand.

I'm running a 65# champion with 4x4 flat dies, and I can work down a 6" piece of 1" round W-1 in one heat. I haven't tried much damascus with it yet, but the time is coming.

I'll have to check out Devin's website :)

Tony
 
Ed,

It may just be me, but I've found from my own experimentation, that if I don't forge at least once at high heat (with 52100) and then follow that by whatever low heat stuff I'm gonna do, I don't get the type of grain structure I'm looking for in the cutting edge.

by forging at higher heat to begin, I can quench from a lower temperature, and still get good results, where, if I do all my forging at lower temperature, I have to quench from a higher temp to get the same pre temper hardness.

I destraoy a lot of blades to test grain and resiliancy, and this is just what I've found.

I also prefer a knife to spring back, rather than bend, so our goals may be different.

Tony (your mileage may vary)
 
Tony, sounds like you have a good hammer there. Most of the machanical hammers out there are not up to their full potential and could work better. My first choice in a power hammer would be a 100# Little Giant (new style), my second choice would be a 110# Tom Clark hammer, but any power hammer is better than NO power hammer. Also, I've seen some amazing things done with a well set up 25# LG, I wouldn't want to be without mine.
We should start a power hammer photo thread soon, I'll see if I can dig some up.

Don Hanson lll sunfishforge.com
 
YS
Instead of forging at high heat the first heat, try giving the bar a soak at just above critical for 2 hours for every linear inch to the center, if the bar is only 1 inch I use the two hours just the same, this applys only to 52100 and possibly only to the 52100 we use. Our blades are strong enough that they cannot be bent without a cheater bar on them, they usualy spring back after a 30 to 40 degree flex, and will return to about a 25 to 30 degree bend on their own after a 90 degree flex.

I am pleased to hear that you are testing your blades with some experiments of your own.
 
Don, I'm game! I have a 100 lb. Little Giant. When I bought it, I also bought a video on curing the hit bang blues (or something like that), by Dave Manzer in Canada, which helped me some. I installed a new spring, build a brake system, everything looks and runs fine, but I can't get that kind of preformance that you do. Mine was made in the 20's I think, and was designed to run on a line shaft. I'm running it with a 5HP 1,100 RPM 3 phase motor. I'm constantly monkeying with the clamp, that clamps on the shaft, that's attached to the large disk (I hope you follow that). Normally, I have about 1/4" to 3/8" of the shaft showing at the bottom, I wonder where yours is set? I also have flat dies, but have been thinking about rounding them over, not much, but maybe 3/8" roundover or so. I also have a clamping system where I can clamp spring fullers and the like. I got that idea from Darrel Ralph's 2nd twice removed cousin, Clinton Ralph. I, like you, love my 100 pounder, and wouldn't trade it for anything. Incidently, I do have a Blu air hammer, which I would trade :o) .
 
Oh, yeah, the brake is another thing I like about the champion, it came from the factory with one, and it works pretty well, a little practice, and it stops at the top of the stroke every time :)

If we're gonna do a picture thread, I'll have to clean mine up... I rebuilt it, but didn't bother painting it... I was always the guy with a car that had a hot rod motor, custom transmission, welded rear end and flat black paint :) cosmetics have never been my thing in machines.

Ed, I'll have to try that soak, but I have to admit, I've been pretty pleased with the results I've been getting. I always include a good soak when HT'ing, but then, I also water quench. (again, YMMV) You say that the soak may not apply to all 52100, but that makes me curious, what 52100 are you using, perhaps the chemistries are a bit different?

Nick.... What can ? ;) :D :eek:
 
Robert, whenever I've used the blu, or similar hammers, I've noticed that they had great control, but not nearly the power I wanted, what's you're take on it?
 
ysforge said:
Robert, whenever I've used the blu, or similar hammers, I've noticed that they had great control, but not nearly the power I wanted, what's you're take on it?
Click to expand...

I'd go along with that. I've suspected that something may be amiss on my Blu, and just haven't had the time to call the factory guys and try to clear it up. Besides, I'm still partial to my Little Giant.
 
Nick's "can" - (machanical versus air) :p strong opinions on both sides. I've used both and I like machainicals better, so there, I said it :p

Roger - My LG is a new style (ram guides on the sides, 1941) which is a bit different from your's but works about the same. I think you're talking about the adjustment on the pitman arm to adjust the ram up and down. Two critical adjustments for the LG are - the distance between the dies when the ram is down and the spring tension. I have 2'' between my dies and I can forge from 3'' down to 1/8'' very efficiently, 1/2'' either way and mine doesn't work as good. As for the spring, you got to just try it a little loser and a little tighter to where you get a good solid blow with every revolution. Also make sure your lower die is as tall as it was when new, as dies wear they get reground over the years, the hammer can most likely be adjusted for a short die but I feel the hammer will work better with the die hight up where it's supposed to be. And yeah, a brake is a good thing, but I don't have one. Also, I'm running a 1725 rpm motor, so mine is probably running faster than yours, more speed = harder blows and more of them, this is good up to a point, too much speed and it throws the hammer out of timing, the video you have covers this very good. Everyone that owns a LG should have this video.

Dies - I put a very slight radius on my dies but left 1 1/2'' flat running across the middle from side to side. When the hammer hits hard they act like drawing dies, with light blows they act like flat dies, these work very good. I find that large flat dies move metal too slow for me and drawing dies are too radical.

Don H.
 
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