Questions of the BK11CSM

A

alan_zheng

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
81
Hello,

I am new to this forum, forgive me if this question has been asked.

I know it is Hitachi White steel + 410, I also saw some websites say SK5 + 410, so there are how many versions of the BK11CSM, could anyone tell me more about these versions, their history? and how to tell the difference versions? I mean is it stated on box or on knife, etc.?

Thank you !
 
There is only one version of the knife. It has Hitachi White Steel. I don't have one yet, but it is on my wish list. Only a small number were made and they will not be made again. Welcome to the Becker forum, I hope you stick around. :)
 
the blade database has some facts. suffice to say that when white steel is gone, it's note like to come again.

though we might see other junk being used from time to time :) maybe. we'll see ;)
 
Thanks for the reply, BRab, Bladite,
I did not see info. regarding the steel type of this one in blade database, anyway, thanks for the answer, it looks there is only one version, some website may put wrong info. saying SK5.
Like to try the White steel.
Thanks
 
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I have a question about the hardness: Is it really at about 57-58 like the 1095CV? I looked at the listed info in blade database, and that is what it said. My understanding of Hitachi White Steel is that it typically is much harder than that (~62-64 I think). I don't understand why this steel would be used if it is tempered down to the same range as the 1095CV model. Wouldn't that essentially just drive the price and production time higher?

I have a BK11 already and I love it, especially after convexing the edge. I REALLY want to get a BK11csm, partly because of the look of it, but can't justify the expense to myself if the hardness rating is not in the 62-64 range (exactly what I wanted in my next knife).
 
Hi Outside, yes, I had the same question about the hardness, the info. in the Internet is confusing, that's a reason I asked how many versions there are, as I saw some web site, stated "420+sk5 carbon steel.... 58-59HRC..."

Could someone clarify this?
 
Hi Bladite, did you mean there IS other material (sk5? ) used instead of White Steel for the same CSM model ? How can buyer tell which steel it is used? they seem look the same
 
A well known German knife online shop states the BK11 CSM to be made of "a layer of San Mai steel sandwiched between two layers of 410 stainless steel".

The fastest way would be to contact tooooj, he should know.

maethor
 
maethor -- Perhaps the "well known German knife online shop" is suffering a little cut and paste problem, as do many websites. Since San Mai means three layers, saying the BK-11 CSM has San Mai steel between two layers of 410 implies a five layer steel, and we know that's not true. Perhaps in editing the knife description, the words White Steel 2 got lost. According to Kabar's webpage for the BK-11 CSM: "It has a carbon steel core of Hitachi White Steel 2 sandwiched between two layers of 410 stainless steel." Unfortunately, Kabar does not list the Rockwell C hardness. Perhaps Toooj or Ethan will chime in and enlighten us.

The first useful link I found on a quick search for White Steel 2 was this one from zknives, http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/articles/kkchoser/kksteelp3.shtml Apparently there are three versions of White Steel, which differ only in C content. White Steel 1 is 1.25 - 1.35 C, 0.20 - 0.30 Mn, and 0.10 - 0.20 Si. White Steel 2 has lower C of 1.05 - 1.15 percent. White Steel 3 has 0.80 - 0.90 C.
 
Wow. Ok. One more thing I didn't know. I don't really know anything at all about fancy steels. Give me 1095 and I'm happy. I'm outta this thread, it makes me feel stupid :D
 
Don't leave on my account, maethor. You always have good comments. We're all just figuring things out, bit by bit. I'm guessing that Toooj has probably forgotten more about steel than we know, so we're all in the same boat.

I only added the info I found on the White Steels because I always wondered what White Steel 2 meant. I knew the name has to do with the color of the paper Hitachi wraps the steel in, but wondered about the "2". White Steel Lite? Son of White Steel? Now we know they're just variations with different C concentration.

As for the somewhat misleading website description, I used to be responsible for a customer and address database, and they are never 100% accurate, so I can sympathize. Maybe you could do them a favor and get them to fix it. I just sent out an email to a well known knife store here in the States who listed a rare knife as including a "letter of providence" instead of "provenance". I didn't accuse them of stupidity, either, but suggested that perhaps their spellchecker gave them the wrong word. Although if we could get Providence (i.e. God) to write us a letter about a rare knife, how much would THAT knife be worth!

So I wasn't criticizing you, maethor, just trying to be helpful. Maybe I should have added a smiley face like you did. Take care, and have a good weekend.
 
No offense taken, thanks for clearing that up.

Guess we just have to wait for tooj or Ethan to step up.
 
Hi Guys,

The BK-11 CSM blade is Hitachi White Steel II sandwiched between layers of 410 Stainless.
The White Steel II hardness is HRc 58-59 IIRC.

White Steel II is a variation of the Famous Hitachi White Steel. The Chemistry is slightly different as per Marantz's post.
See you guys didn't really need me. You figured it out by yourselves.

Have a happy Easter.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
Thanks, Toooj. It's always great to hear from you. Maybe you could ask your webmaster to update the BK-11 CSM page with hardness info for future reference. And if we could get Bladite or other mod to update the Becker blade sticky with proper hardness and steel info, we'd be all set.
 
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it's really peanut butter sandwiched between two layers of chocolate.

if someone writes the definitive descriptive paragraph, i'll insert it (with credit even) into the blade DB :0 !!!
 
Bladite -- How's this? I changed the heading, to make it obvious what CSM stands for, made the steel description more explicit, and updated the hardness numbers. Also changed San Mai to two words, since that seems to be the most common form, although I've seen both used. Oh, and updated the link, since your product hyperlink was truncated, and went to the KA-BAR homepage.

I guess you don't want to know that the company Toooj works for calls themselves KA-BAR, all caps, with a hyphen in the middle? But then you'd have to change them all. Hmm...search and replace? I've seen it spelled different ways, and finally started paying attention to their website. They always spell it that way, all caps with a hyphen. I had thought that maybe they just capitalized it on the tang stamps for clarity. Learn something new every day, even if I'm years behind everyone else. So I spelled it that way, but I leave it up to you. Not harassing you (all power to the mods, etc.) just thinking out loud. That usually gets me in trouble, for some strange reason. ;) This took a lot longer than I thought it would, which is probably why you were smart enough to ask for a volunteer.

ooo KA-BAR BK-11CSM (Carbon San Mai)

https://www.kabar.com/product/produ...1,2,3,7,9&categoryName=Product Search Results

o KA-BAR Era
oo Shape: drop point
oo Edge Angle: 15 degrees
oo Grind: flat
oo Steel: San Mai, White Star 2 High Carbon core/410 Stainless sides
oo Rc hardness: 58-59
oo Blade length: 3.25 inches
oo Overall length: 6.75 inches
oo Blade thickness: 0.166 inch
oo Knife Weight: 2.4 ounces (0.15 pounds)
oo Handle: skeletonized
oo Sheath: friction necker-style glass filled nylon
oo Origins: knife made in Japan, sheath made in Taiwan
oo MSRP: US$125.68
 
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