Questions on bending & breaking Carbon, Stainless, and Damascus steels

S

Shotgunone

Joined
Oct 1, 2000
Messages
244
Ok, I am trying for the stupid question of the month. Basically because I am not sure how to ask it.

I have been searching and reading about forging, testing, and using carbon steels and damascus on the forums. I notice that many threads talk about forged blades being tested by bending them 90 degrees without breaking and having the return to about 25 degrees or so. I have tested (to destruction) several Stainless steel blades (ATS34) and find that with enough pressure you can bend them but the amount of pressure to bend verse break a blade is very close. In otherwords the blade will usually snap while flexed instead of bend.

So my questions is do properly ht and tempered carbon steel blades tend to bend more readily before breaking than stainless blades?

What about carbon damascus, does it share that same property of bending before breaking?

If nickel is part of the damascus layers does it influence this bending trait for better or worse?

Is this flexablity trait what makes for better impact and shock resistance of carbon steels over stainless steels?

Is it the forging of carbon or damascus that cause this trait or could I expect a similar response if I use stock removal on carbon tool steels (like 1095 or 1084 or others) if they are ht and tempered properly?

I guess I am so use to stainless steel flexing and returning to center or breaking under flex that I am having a hard time figuring out how carbon steels perform so well and have this ability to flex, bend and apparently resist breaking under flex that will break a stainless blade. Am I trying to compare apples to oranges?

Any help in understanding this would be appreciated. I guess as a "Stainless Steel Stock Remover" I am having a hard time figuring out how blades that will rockwell test ABOUT the same hardness will react so differently to flexing, bending, and breaking.

Thanks
 
Those really were good questions, and from the answers you furnished, I can see why you earned the MS rating, Ed! You answered some questions for me, too. Thanks, Ed.
 
Ed,

Thanks a lot for you comments. Your knowledge and experience is greatly appreciated.

I think you answered the root of my question. That yes carbon tool steel and carbon damascus is more bendable / less breakable than stainless in properly heat treated blades.

You asked if knifemakers who use stock removal techniques think about some of the same things that bladesmiths do. I can really only speak for myself but I believe the answer is yes. Even in using stock removal techniques to make blades, the knife's intended use, the profile, its geometry and the edge radius and geometry of the edge, and the hardness and temper of the blade are considered. The way I see it, each knife made is limited by it materials and construction, as a knifemaker I want to make the best knife I can within the perimeters of the material I have chosen to use.

Now here is where I can get into real trouble and show my ignorance possible. I am not sure how big of envelope we (stainless steel stock removers) have as compared to foraging with carbon tool steels. I think there is room to test and refine techniques and blades need to be tested (broken, bent, cut with, sharpened, resharpened, etc.) and different methods tried. I would think any knifemaker, no matter how they choose to make the knife would not just rely on a set of instructions for a given steel type and be satisfied with those being good enough.

My main interest is making traditional slipjoint pocket knives. I occasionally get asked about using a carbon tool steels in my knives. My guess is forging a small pocket knife blade would be tough to do. I am really interested in finding out how a tool steel blade that is made by stock removal would perform vs. the stainless I currently use. I know D2 is an option but it is "almost" stainless. If you were going to use a carbon tool steel for blades and springs in a slipjoint pocket knife which one would you choose? Why?

Thanks and Regards
 
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