Questions on CS Rifleman´s Hawk

Humppa

Humppa

Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
7,432
Hi guys!

I want to buy that hawk. But I have some questions. How is the steel? Does it rust a lot? Is the 5150 steel a carbon or a stainless steel?

How about using it in Heavy Duty Woodwork with chainsaw, heavy axe and hammer for shmashing a one meter wood in two. Does the hawk keep that work?

How about the black-colour axehead? Does it loose that colour very fast by using?

Kind regards...

P.S.: Please excuse my bad english. I lost a lot of knowlegde during the time after school. I hope you know what I mean...
 
No. I did NOT LIKE my experience with the Riflemen's hawk, it is very heavy to swing, and it is not an efficient cutter for all the work needed in my opinion.
 
I very much like most of the CS hawks, I hate the rifleman. Sounds like you need an axe.

Regards

Robin
 
l've had a Rifleman's 'Hawk since early 1994. Put it through a lot of hard use and its held up great.

But it is a bit heavy.
 
I have one the finish comes off where you use it alot but its pretty tough prol have 3/4 of my finish still on mine I use mine for when im hunting for butchering game or chopping small saplings and such
 
Humppa said:
Please excuse my bad english. I lost a lot of knowlegde during the time after school. I hope you know what I mean...
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First, let me say that I hate it when people who speak English as a second language apologize for their "bad" English. Generally, it's perfectly fine and you specifically, are perfectly comprehensible.

As I like to say: "You speak my language a heck of a lot better than I speak yours" :p

Humppa said:
How is the steel? Does it rust a lot? Is the 5150 steel a carbon or a stainless steel?
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Cold Steel uses 1055 for their axes, not 5160. From my experience 5160 is a bit tougher, more wear resistant, and holds a better edge than 1055.
It also has great performance over a higher range of hardness and still retains a nice level of toughness when hardened up to 58-60hrc. From what I've seen, 1055 tends to be kept around 56 hrc or below... if people want harder, they'll generally go with a higher carbon 10xx, like 1084 or 1095. For axes and such though, 1055 is a perfectly good choice as it's plenty tough and mid 50s hrc is more than sufficient for an axe. That said, my experience with cold steel's tomahawks has been pretty favorable - good impact resistance and takes/holds an edge pretty well.

5160 is also tad bit more corrosion resistant than 1055 due to it's actually having some chromium, but it's hardly a noticeable difference: 5160 has 0.7-0.9% chromium, whereas 1055 has zero (i.e 1055 is about as "non-stainless" as steel gets). 13% or more constitutes "stainless", so both are carbon steels and will rust pretty easily if not oiled and looked after. You don't want stainless steel for a heavy impact tool like an axe though - with stainless steels, you sacrifice toughness and edge retention for stain resistance, which is not a good compromise for such a tool.

Humppa said:
How about the black-colour axehead? Does it loose that colour very fast by using?
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I honestly can't comment on how well the coating stays on. One of the first things I did when I got my trail hawk was strip this coating off then force a protective patina with vinegar. I hate the look of coatings, especially when they begin to wear away...

Humppa said:
How about using it in Heavy Duty Woodwork with chainsaw, heavy axe and hammer for shmashing a one meter wood in two. Does the hawk keep that work?
Click to expand...

Really, I see the cold steel tomahawks as more an item for light weight hiking/camping or novelty (like throwing)... if weight isn't an issue, I can't think of any tasks that it excels at over a more traditional axe in the same length range (like a Gransfors Bruks Small Forest Axe). The shape isn't very good for splitting and the length isn't ideal for chopping. I can't think of where it would fit into your intended task, unless you need something light weight for limbing...?
 
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Hi!
Thank you guys, especially to you killa_concept.
The hawk I want to use not as an axe. I have serveral axes, also a good chainsaw (Stihl). The main-axe for woodwork is an Ochsenkopf with 2,2 kilogram headweight, made in (good old) Germany. I want it to remove big bushes and dry parts of the tree. Maybe on a ladder, where I don´t want to work with the chainsaw (that´s damn dangerous) and the axe is too heavy and large.

Now I want to try a traditional american tomahawk.

But it´s good to know, that the used steel is alright. I read on an german shop at http://www.toolshop.de/product_info.php?products_id=3063&XTCsid=de8a06195948332addf59271f0c86f55 that there´s used 5150 as steel. But it don´t matter.

And the coating (thanks for that new word) let it goodly remove.
I think I like that hawk. So to say as a kind of backup for woodwork. I´m looking forward to using that tool.

Kind regards...
 
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Herr Humppa, another option you might wish to consider is Ft. Turner.

I like Cold Steel's tomahawks. I think they're great for what one pays for them, but IMO Ft. Turner is better. I have yet to own or use a tomahawk which takes and holds a super keen edge as the ones made by Ft Turner.

And they are hand forged. You can't get any more traditional than that.


And your english is just fine.;)
 
The overall appearance has made me steer clear of them,
no offense, but they are just ugly.
I would not say they look particularly good for anything.
 
If you want a tomahawk, there would be nothing wrong with a cold steel or 2 to learn with, you ought to be able to find them from $20 to 45 plus shipping, that may be a lot to get to your house. The CS spike hawk is pretty sweet looking, I am gonna get one sometime, got all the rest. And if you dinged, dented or scratched one of these, not going to hurt much anyway, straighten it out, file it up and throw it again, as far as working in timber, get an axe.
 
Personally, I think the Frontier (or if you want a hammer poll the Pipe) would be better Cold Steel models for the work you want to do, and both are more traditional looking than the Rifleman's.

BUT, I also think highly of Fort Turner hawks. He uses a 1020 bit with a 1095 insert for the cutting edge. They are both very tough and hold a good edge. He makes them in many weight ranges and with or without hammer polls.
 
The Rifleman is heavy and clumsy feeling. I stripped the hawk heads a bit with a brass wire wheel on a hand drill. Then wiped liquid Cold Blue on them. This darkened them and gave them a slight bluish\grey tinge. I slid the heads off and smeared liquid silicone were the head would stop, I also smear a bunch inside the head neck, before sliding back up. I hammered them into place, torqued down the set screw, wiped off the excess and let them dry in the closet for a few days. The Rifleman has NEVER loosened up in two years now of normal chopping (well actually I don't use it a hell of a lot). The New Frontier did loosen quite quickly as I just smeared some left over red high temp rubber silicone in it, that I had in the bottom of my tool box. The red silicone looks ugly also. Ah well... If I want to pretty them up I can restrip a little more carefully and put a better effort in. This is good enough for me. I barely touch the Rifleman but plan to pack the New Frontier this year. I stained the Rifleman handle with Cherry stain and had fancy brass tacks in it etc. at one time. I felt like a goof though when people saw it, so I yanked them out. I use these hawks for lite duty chopping and I'm not too concerned about them looking pretty, but at the same time I want a little bit of an authentic look. This works for me at this time. I just sharpen and wipe a little mineral oil on them once in a while.

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Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for your replies... Fort Turner sounds not bad, but I think, I have to order them in the US. So I have to pay custom and taxes. The CS tomahawks are able to be ordered in germany.
Well, I think it should be able taking pics of the hawk and all of the tools i use in the heavy wood working. In combination with chainsaw, heavy axe, sappi and all the other things I use to carry with me out there.
The trail hawk is also interesting. But I think it could be a little bit to light get the jobs done. Some of the tree-parts I have to remove on the ladder are as thick as a mans neck. Not just dry bushes and such things. As I already read, on the ladder the chainsaw is very much to dangerous to work up there with and the axe is much to heavy with 2,2 kg.

If ugly or not, doesn´t matter, it has to be a tool which is working pretty well. I don´t wanna have any Beauty-Queen.

What are your experiences with the Trail Hawk in comparison to the Rifleman´s hawk in getting such jobs done? I mean one-handed working (especially on a ladder).

Kind regards
 
I've had both the trail hawk and the riflemans hawk, and prefer the trail hawk by a vast amount. It is balanced well, light enough to carry, heavy enough to use as a hammer/hatchet, and feels "right."

The riflemans hawk feels awkward in comparison. I almost think that it needs a longer handle to balance right, it comes with a 19 inch handle and should probably need a 22 or 24 inch handle to balance. It feels very head heavy with the handle. If I were going to get one to use on a ladder or use in general, the trail hawk is far more versatile.

As to your question on the black paint, it wears fairly easy. I keep my hawk inside when not in use, and lightly coated with oil for storage. It has some light rust on the edge, but it does not rust much, even after all these years that I've been using it. The rust comes off quickly with a few runs with a file or honing stone, so its really a light dust. The blade is easy to sharpen and holds its edge well. I use a bastard file and then a stone to sharpen mine. If I want it really sharp, I use the unglazed backside of a ceramic mug.

With those thick branches you mentioned, perhaps a small hand saw would be more useful, and safer.
 
Well, I wanted to buy buy that hawk, but much of your good answers made me think about it. I´m gonna buy the Trailhawk, because I think the RM H is to heavy for the "wooden handle" (I don´t know the word). I don´t want to throw it...

I have to build a fence of wood in the forest because there´s danger of deer that eat the young parts of the trees (they´re just three years old). And a combination of hammer and a little axe seems to be the right choice. Carrying it on a belt, waiting for the use ...
I want to thank you guys for the discussion and your really constructive answers...
(It seems that any question that is asked in that forum is taken serious...)

Kind regards...
 
My CS Trail Hawk has arrived today. I used it already for making firesticks for firestarting. It works well, it´s light. But the wooden handle is not fixed strongly on the axehead. I´m gonna habe to put on a new one. I´m looking forward to work with it...

Kind regards...
 
Sorry I haven't been watching this thread... I think you made the right call on the trail hawk - From what I've heard, the rifleman is really a bit too heavy for a proper tomahawk. The trail or pipe hawk is the way to go (didn't see the latter on the site you linked though)

Humppa said:
My CS Trail Hawk has arrived today. I used it already for making firesticks for firestarting. It works well, it´s light. But the wooden handle is not fixed strongly on the axehead. I´m gonna habe to put on a new one. I´m looking forward to work with it...

Kind regards...
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Mine wasn't either, but it's not terribly hard to fix. There's no need to make a whole new handle.

Just take out the screw, stand up the axe with the head down. Lightly put your feet on the head and poll then apply some weight while tugging up on the handle. Yank the head off and you'll see marks where it's a little high. rasp those spots down slightly and the head will keep moving up the handle until it's eventually snug :thumbup:
 
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