How To Questions re: making a short hidden tang handle

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ErikMB

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Jul 27, 2017
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Hi All, I have a kit for a short hidden tang knife, looks like a Bowie. Tang is 5 1/2 cm long. For my hand, I'd like a handle that's about 9 cm long.

The kit comes with a nice brass oval guard that fits perfectly. The tang has only one hole in it about 3 cm down.

I am wondering a few things:
1) Must I use a block as opposed to flat scales for the handle? I was envisioning two sides and a top and bottom piece the width of the tang -OR- carving out the shape of the tang in the two halves so they mate over the tang. I don't have a drill press so I would prefer to build up the handle as opposed to drill one out, if possible.
2) I'd like to use some layers to make it look nice, say, light blue wood by the guard, then some layers made of juniper veneer I have laying around, and some sheet steel cut into disks. Would this weaken the handle too much since it is a short tang?
3) I would like to make the handle curve downward, like the handle of a saber. Would that downward curve cause too much torque for a short tang, resulting in splitting the handle if it is made of two scales mated together?

Thanks for your help, yet again, folks!
 
I think I found a model for this. Does anyone have experience with this type of handle? How does it hold up over time? How does it manage being twisted? If I were trying to break off the handle, I would put the blade in something solid and twist.

oldetownecutlery.com

Unique Hidden Tang Construction How To - Olde Towne Cutlery

Unique Hidden Tang Construction of Due South Knives with an exotic wood spacer that makes for a beautiful knife with an exceptional fit and finish.
oldetownecutlery.com oldetownecutlery.com
 
ErikMB said:
1) Must I use a block as opposed to flat scales for the handle? I was envisioning two sides and a top and bottom piece the width of the tang -OR- carving out the shape of the tang in the two halves so they mate over the tang. I don't have a drill press so I would prefer to build up the handle as opposed to drill one out, if possible.
Click to expand...
Look up frame tangs, that's what you're describing with the first one. The second one is more of a mortised tang, which in my opinion looks better if you split a single block rather than use two slabs.

ErikMB said:
2) I'd like to use some layers to make it look nice, say, light blue wood by the guard, then some layers made of juniper veneer I have laying around, and some sheet steel cut into disks. Would this weaken the handle too much since it is a short tang?
Click to expand...
I would be cautious with this, I have had a knife break for that reason. The tang was too short, and the wood joins in the handle had a weak spot. There are ways around it, but that will add complexity. Given you don't seem to have much experience i would suggest keeping it simple.

ErikMB said:
3) I would like to make the handle curve downward, like the handle of a saber. Would that downward curve cause too much torque for a short tang, resulting in splitting the handle if it is made of two scales mated together?
Click to expand...
What are you planning on doing with it? It takes some effort to break a 3cm dowel, as long as the wood grain is aligned with the dowel. I wouldn't worry about it, but also I wouldn't warranty a knife for being used as a hatchet (others disagree with this attitude).
A metal frame handle would avoid this issue.
 
Hi Alex, thanks heaps for the advice! Much appreciated.

I do not have any serious metal working tools, unfortunately. Just a belt sander, Dremel, vice, and various files. Maybe I can figure out a way to make that frame piece but I cannot see my Dremel cutting metal as thick as that tang. Hmmm....

The use case of the knife I have not really figured out. It's not super-duper quality steel, I think that just looking nice and the handle not breaking while... not sure what it would be used for, actually. I'd just like to make it look nice and be strong and learn a lot about how to make these things. Yes, you guessed it, I'm new. This would be my third non-folding knife. I've only been doing this since August, so less than three months. I'm still learning the basics.
 
You can drill out the metal piece and then use hacksaw/files/dremel to make the remainder of the slot for the metal frame. I do frame handles a lot with G10 or Micarta and they have held up pretty well. I use my bandsaw to cut the slot out for the tang.
 
One of the benefits of a frame handle is that you don't have to use " metal" for the frame g10 ,micarta, or whatever you have that matches the thickness of the tang can be used. If you can measure the thickness of your tang you can probably find g 10 or micarta( plenty strong) in the appropriate thickness for your frame . Micarta and g 10 both file and sand easily enough that you can accommodate your tang . From there it is a matter of pinning the handle material to the frame and locating the hole to properly drill through your handle to accept the main pin holding the handle on to the blade
 
Here's what I have so far. I don't like the look. It feels solid and secure, though.

Anyone have any fashion advice?
 
Let's try again....

I think I will remove it and start over but I still want to shape it better in order to learn.

It looks awful, doesn't it...?
 

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The handle seems to be at an upward angle to the spine line. It looks and feels better when it is even or curving down from the spine line.
I also don't like the look of the big bulge in the palm. Half that bulge would have been plenty of palm swell.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
The handle seems to be at an upward angle to the spine line. It looks and feels better when it is even or curving down from the spine line.
I also don't like the look of the big bulge in the palm. Half that bulge would have been plenty of palm swell.
Click to expand...
Yes! Actionable feedback!

I'll try to adjust per your advice. Thanks yet again, Stacy.
 
By the time I've sanded off those sections, the handle will probably be too small. Still, good learning opportunity.
 
With it already installed, there isn't much you can do besides reduce the palm swell a bit.

If it wasn't installed, you could sand the end at a slight angle (replacing the stacked liner material) and drop the butt. You might have to angle the hole in the tang or bend the tang a tad, too.
 
The scales/block was actually installed nice and perpendicular to the brass guard. The upslope is from me sanding down the handle at the front.

Is there some kind of standard for sanding down edges? This looks like I rounded it too much. Looks like poop (see the "poop rule" here: http://www.knife-gear.com/get-a-grip/).

How do I get that beveling measured right?

I think I go too far because I have so much fun doing the process as opposed to having a clear image of what I am trying to create.
 
I am having a very difficult time coming up with something minimalist and removing material until I have achieved it.

My mind wants complexity and wants to build things, to add to it, not reduce it. Probably from decades of building models and of being an engineer.

It's like learning to be opposite-handed. Nice challenge but sheesh... very, very difficult for my brain.

It's strange, so many things in life go through this strange cycle. A beginner starts with a stick figure or a round face with dots and lines for eyes and a mouth.

Then, the intermediate level looks like Norman Rockwell art, tons of details, lots of precision.

Then, the zen-master comes full circle to making stick figures and icons again but they are exactly perfect, no extras.

I think of Microsoft's stick figures that are simple but convey exactly what they meant to, emojis, and even the Japanese flag. It's perfect. Perfect contrast, clear from a distance and in bad weather, simple to make, it's just right. Zen. Full circle.

Same with knife blades and handles.
 
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My buddy came over for family dinner last night and he loves that handle so he got himself a new knife. God, I love making my friends happy with my hobby!
 
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