questions

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nahcuhp

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Sep 13, 2001
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can we give a wavy katana-like hamon to a khukuri?
how is it done? i read somewhere that the sharp edge of the blade is heated with clay wrapping.
can the kamis do this type of task?
do you think the khukuri would look good with it?
i think it would enhance the look of the already-tough khukuri. (and the price? :) :) :) )
 
not the replicas-katana type wavy hamon. i meant the traditional types like on those old samurai blades, or Paul Chen's even though his blades are replicas but traditionally made which have nice hamons
 
The hamon line of a traditional katana is formed by zone tempering the blade, so that the edge is tempered and the spine is not. The blade is then polished, usually with a weak acid. The tempered area of the blade shows up darker than the soft area of the blade. Khukuris are also tempered this way, and if properly treated the hamon line can be brought out. The difference between the khukuri and the katana is the method used to temper them. You're right about the katana. IIRC, the spine of a katana is coated with clay, which can be shaped to create a distinct hamon. The blade is then heated, and quenched in a tub of water. The khukuri tempering process is different. The blade is so wide, that the kamis can simply pour water over parts of it instead of quenching the whole thing. This results in a very plain looking hamon. :D

If the experts can correct any flaws in my explanation, please do. I know there are some experienced knife makers around here who do more than just study stuff. ;)

I do think it would be neat to clay coat and temper a khukuri, though. Good idea, nahcuhp!:cool:
 
Bura knows how to do it and calls the process, "wrapping the blade in mud" but whether any of the kamis will do it I'm not sure.
 
thanks Matt
ok here's the idea in black and white, well....the colors are to help distinguish :D :D
i imagine that this would has ivory handle,..but if i want a wood,horn,aluminum,brass or gold! boy..:):):)
take the already-tough khukuri and add the nihonto hamon
try this
http://www.freehomepages.com/kuk/pics/
 
All 3 links take me to the same webpage advertiseing homepages.?
 
Uncle Bill, that seems like a good idea for a special order khuk. How much do you think a 12" hanshee by Bura with a clay-coated hamon and some brass and copper inlay cost? A bone handle would be nice, too...:D

nahcuhp, glad to help! Those pictures look really good, too. It looks like a BAS model, sorta.
 
Nahcuhp I have to agree that a nice mud wrapped produced hamon would be very beautiful, but I'm wondering about it lasting through the abuse that khukuris sometimes get.
It would be interesting to find out,:) even though with the hardened point one would have to be more careful how the khukuri was used.

I have a handmade dropped point hunter made by Ronnie Foster, an up and coming bladesmith, that's made from 1084.
It has a very nice temper line that automaticaly shows up when the blade is rubbed lengthwise with a very fine SiC paper, about 600 grit.
But I am saving the knife for something besides use by me, don't know for sure who it's for, but I think I have a general idea.;)
The Japanese Swords hamon showed up when polished and the higher the polish the more evident it is. No acid was used on them to aquire the hamon line.

On the other hand I have another dropped point hunter very similar to Ronnie's that was forged by Ray Kirk of Raker Knives out of 52100. This one has became my favorite hunting knife and would be my EDC if I wasn't sorta afraid it might be confiscated by a city LEO because of its 5 1/2" blade.:(
MY EDC is so far either a Camillus 154 CM Talon or a Spyderco Upswept point VG10 Moran along with a Leatherman SUper tool. I would hate to lose either, but at least they come under the 4" legal limit although they are under my shirtail usually and they aren't so expensive that it would be difficult to replace them.
And when you're as fat as I am it's difficult to wear shirtails tucked in.;)
Ray has won the cutting contest at the ABS ( I believe it was, Blues knows for sure:)) the last couple years so he knows a thing or three about edge geometry and the like. I have a feeling that Ray's 52100 forged knives are comparable or perhaps better than Ed Fowler's famous knives!!!!
The temper line on Ray's knife shows up through the patina it's beginning to aquire.
But this knife is used as a knife and not put through the heavy chopping and other use like digging for instance that one of my khukuris may go through and I believe the temper line is just going to get better over time.
The patina that a carbon steel blade that's well used for cutting everything is sorta an acid etch in itself since it is cutting a certain amount of acidic foods.

........So if you were to rub the khukuri's blade with lime, lemon, tomato, or even onion slices the hamon should pop right out while giving your blade an almost rustproof patina. That is if you happen to like that sort of finish as much as I do....:)
 
i just brought in some addition of HIVK? :D :D :D
well the tempered line on japanese blades last hundreds or more years. they last through battles centuries ago to sword testers/martial artists who chop thick bamboos for fun, i think it would do the same for the khukuri because these kamis are good.
 
An etch is deep and will last for some time. But like all things even a good etch will eventually fade with use and time. Re-etching isnt too hard and depending on how you do it, it should last. I havent etched any of my khuks just because I dont feel it proper. I figure if it was meant to be seen it would be done by the people who make em. To get the hamon if you really want it to show you can etch/polish the blade.

Heres the way I etch blades to get a japanese style etch. I wont include all the steps because Im assuming we're dealing with a new khuk, and not a 100 yr old antique that is covered in rust or has any pittings.

Supplies:
1/4 diluted ferric chloride
2500 grit sandpaper
polishing compound (I use to different grades but you could get away with one) such as flitz or simichrome
Isopropyl alcohol or ash
baking soda
blow dryer
plastic tray
brush

First clean the blade of all oil with isopropyl alcohol. Make sure the blade is 100% grease free or you'll have problems. Another way to clean the blade of oil which I have found to work better is to sprinkle ash (I must confess I used cigarette ash but the traditional way is to use cow dung ash but any good fine ash will work) onto the blade and use a little water to make a paste. The ash will absorb the oil. However it can be quite messy.

Next take your blow dryer and warm the blade.

Finally stand you khukri up on top of the tray and brush on the diluted ferric chloride. Make sure to coat the blade evenly. I usually keep brushing etchant on till Im satisfied with the color change. The hardened area should turn black and the soft area will be grey. This will take anywhere between 5-10 min.

Now rinse the blade off. Then sprinkle liberally baking soda all over the blade to stop the acidic reaction. The baking soda should be thick and paste like. Let the baking soda sit for a minute or two and rinse off.

Now polish off the oxides with the 2500 grit paper. The hardened edge will polish faster and brighter than the softer back. Then remove 2500 grit scratches with polish.

Now the contrast will be evident, but will probably not be as flashy as you like. Just repeat the steps until you get the contrasts you want. I normally etch 2-5 times to get the contrasts I want.

This is for a flashier japanese style look. Im not particularly fond of it myself. I normally etch Moro swords and use a slightly different method to get a middle ground between this look and the stark contrasts of an Indonesian patination.

This etch will last a long time through alot of use. However it will eventually fade, but this is more due to time and the gradual growth of patina rather than abrasive use. Eventually over the years the blade will darken. After say 100 plus years the blade will gain a even enough patina where it may be hard to differentiate between the hardened zone and the soft zone.

A few hints on how to identify the hardened zone. It will be marked by a sharp transition line, but near the line there should be what appears to be a clowdy white transition area. This indicates differential hardening versus just a carbon difference that occurs in pattern welded blades.
 
I learn something in this forum everyday. Thanks for good and interesting help.

I think we'll wait on the mud wrapping project until my next trip to Nepal.
 
That's probably a good idea, Uncle. So when's your next trip to Nepal going to be?:D :D

Actually, it will also probably be good to take time and find some pics and info about Japanese sword making to help show the kamis exactly what we want, too.
 
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