raising a burr on s30v and D2

KarlMaldensNose

KarlMaldensNose

Joined
Feb 3, 2009
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Yeah, I know, get the diamond rods. They're coming. But for now...

I'm talking Sharpmaker medium rods here. I have no problems getting a burr on softer stuff, but with s30v and D2 not so much.

Can anyone out there sharpen to a burr on s30v or D2 using medium rods? If yes, you keep hitting the same side until it forms, then switch, yes? I'll swipe for hours if you guys say it's in fact doable.
 
I use a fine diamond to get a burr if I need to..
But yes.. I can get a burr with just the spydy stones on my D2, and s30v
Back and forth works for me ..
 
You should be able to experiment a little and see what will happen. Mark the bevel with a black marker and work one side until it is completely gone. At that point if you can't feel a burr then probably it is forming too small to feel. I think the marker test and the "burr formation" tell you the same thing, but the burr is the more conclusive proof that you have honed out the bevel completely to the edge. I also believe working the edge on just one side gives you the best chance of creating a detectable burr if that is your goal.

I have one s30v blade and I can't remember how it behaves on the SharpMaker, so I can't give a more specific answer. I just checked and it's razor sharp, so I'm not gonna hit the medium ceramics just to find out either.:eek:
 
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It is not matter of diamonds vs sapphire but simple grit issue. Medium ceramic is just 20 microns and you need a lot of sharpening if your edge has different angle initially. I am pretty sure that this is a case, use black marker to see what part of edge is affected.

Also it is not matter steel hardness - ceramic is harder anyway. It may be seen only on carbides level - like vanadium carbides harder then Aluminum Oxid but it is only seen when grit is same as carbides size (2 microns on Ultra Fine ceramic).

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Forgot to mention that I am indeed using the markered bevel method, and am indeed getting rid of all the marker... at least what I can see of. I just assumed that sice I can't get that s30v mofo to shave that I am somehow not getting the bevels to meet, and that my inability to get a burr is evidence of overall failure and futility.
 
Use a magnifying glass + alot of lighting to see if you are removing all of the ink at the very edge.

I used to sharpen my s30v native with lansky crock sticks, and they worked, but I don't think I ever formed a burr, I think the most important thing is that you are actually hitting the edge, the sharpie trick + a magnifying glass would work very well on steels that are more resistant to forming burrs. I now sharpen s30v with a belt sander because I find it takes pretty long to get a super high polished edge on s30v unless you are using diamond stones + paste.
 
KarlMaldensNose said:
Forgot to mention that I am indeed using the markered bevel method, and am indeed getting rid of all the marker... at least what I can see of. I just assumed that sice I can't get that s30v mofo to shave that I am somehow not getting the bevels to meet, and that my inability to get a burr is evidence of overall failure and futility.
Click to expand...

To answer this - there is nothing special about CPM S30V or D2, you do not have burr not because this is CPM S30V or D2, but because you have too fine grid to make job done. You should have burr i bevels meet on any steel.

Bright lamp is good tool to see what is going on on the edge, it highlight burr or part o the edge which is not affected by sharpening - try to catch reflection of the lamp on the edge under different angles.

This sharpening business require patience - look at this as at some kind of meditation.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
OK, I looked at my s30v blade a little longer and found a small chip; reason enough to put it back on the SharpMaker.

I painted both bevel sides with a Sharpie, and then hit the corners of the brown stones just working one side up and down quickly for a few minutes. Then I checked the progress and all the marker was gone (at 10X), but no burring could be felt (by stropping on my thumb pad). So I continued for several more minutes, still no burring.

Then I leaned a 325 mesh, blue duosharp DMT against the rods and continued on the same side for about a minute. Under magnification I could see that the DMT had completely worked the bevel on that side, but still no burring.

Then I moved the DMT to the opposite side of the SharpMaker and worked the opposite bevel for about two minutes. Then I stropped the edge on my thumb and there was a fairly obvious burr.

Then I worked the burr side, back on the brown rods just on one side to see if I could burr the opposite side. After a few minutes, nothing. So I retried the DMT and recreated a burr again.

Conclusion, I could not create a burr (that could be felt) with the corners of the brown rods by working one side of the SharpMaker on this knife which is BOS s30v. However, I could using a DMT.

Added later:
I continued to dress the edge with the brown stones on both sides (in the conventional side to side manner) to take out the DMT scars and finish the edge. I noticed as the edge got more refined and sharper, I began to detect and chase a burr. I could flip it back and forth and remove it on the corners by raising the angle. With the burr gone the edge is tree topping arm hair now.

New conclusion: I know nothing!
 
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matt321 said:
New conclusion: I know nothing!
Click to expand...

That's good! Funny, I mean.:)

It also reminds me of another issue I am having (but won't ask about... I'm just riffing here). It is related your problem of one side of the blade behaving differently. Sometimes (okay, all the time) when I do manage to get my softer blades to shave, they will shave only on one side of the blade and not the other. Whatever. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it (okay, maybe I will). I simply attribute this to working one side more cleanly, more straight/vertical on the Sharpmaker rods than the other side. Even though I'm doing both sides with my right hand, for some reason it feels like I lose some dexterity (almost like I'm left-handed in my right hand, if that makes sense) when hitting the right rod as opposed to being a surgeon when hitting the left rod. I think this is, at least in part, because I have a better view of blade-to-rod contact on the left side than on the right due to my knuckles not being in the way on that side.
 
That happens to me too (shaves on one side but not the other). Similarly, sometimes when testing an edge on the thumb nail, it will catch well on one side but poorly on the other. Often, I can reverse the outcome by doing more SharpMaker strokes on the "catching or shaving" side. After a dozen strokes or so on the one side, it will then catch on the thumbnail best from the opposite side.

I attribute this to a "wire edge". This is a form of burring. I think it is caused by using too much pressure. I can sometimes correct it by raising the angle and working it back and forth, chasing it side to side. In the worst cases it won't go away and I'm forced to cut into the stone very lightly and start again.

I visualize this wire edge as a very thin edge that flexes against the rods so that it can't easily be honed away. You can bend it from side to side as you sharpen, but it bends away from the stone surface making it difficult to remove. In cross section it looks like the letter "y".
 
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As I sad you need to be patient in this business. This is for sure luck of skills and most likely unstable grip when you sharpening. Also the fact thet you do it on corner may contribute to this troubles.

Also when you sharpen on DMT this way, you angle most likely became bigger, because you holding knife by handle and friction on the 325 stone is way higher with twist it more then when you glide on brown stone.

So again this is just too small grit to initial fix for your edge.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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