Ran into some problems

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Aug 18, 2011
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159
I was really excited to get started on this knife and I did everything up until it needed profiled no problems. Well I put the steel with the knife design on it in a vice and fired up the angle grinder, started making cuts to get the rough shape close to the lines as I could. I cannot see where the bottom of the cutting disc cuts and bam I cut right into my design! ARG! I kept trying to cut on anyway and found that I cant even get straight cuts. Not knowing where the wheel is cutting really makes things impossible. And when cutting I find it only takes a few seconds and when I spray water on the steel it starts smoking quite a bit. Yes I am letting the grinder do the work.

Any advice here? This really ruined my day after I cut into the design.

And on a side note when I drill steel with my drill press it makes a very loud screech every time the bit makes contact with the steel.. am i doing something wrong or is this normal.
 
Why are you trying to grind the blade that way? Use a belt grinder and if you haven't got that then get some files and do it by hand. I'm a bit surprised you didn't get your hands cut as well Frank
 
Sorry about the confusion. I meant I am trying to cut the knife shape out from the steel. I'm not to grinding the bevels yet.
 
I am sure someone will chime in telling how they do nearly every tack with an angle grinder, but all I would recommend to use one for would be to chop off a piece of bar stock. The shaping of the bar after it is cut at the right length is not wise to try with an angle grinder, IMHO.

Once the piece has been cut off, use files to shape it, or use a bench grinder () one of the cheap HF 6" wheel models will work) to shape the profile. From there it is hand filing and hand sanding unless you have a belt grinder.

If your drill bits are squealing, there is some problem.
1) Steel is hardened or is being work hardened.
2) Bits are dull/cheap/wrong kind.
3) Feed pressure or drill speed too hard/high
4) Lack of lubrication.

You didn't say what the steel type is and what condition it is in....but a good first knife choice is CRA1084.
 
As one who makes knives with minimal tools, let me join the others by saying the angle grinder is the wrong tool for the job, for exactly the reasons you already know. I'd add one other reason... ir removes material WAY too fast for a beginner. No offense, but those of us not extremely familiar with use of power tools for precision work need methods that are slow and forgiving. Impatience is your enemy.

As regards this knife, my advice is to follow one of two courses:
1) If you are committed to the specific design you came up with, mark it up as a lesson learned and start over again
2) If you are flexible about the design, look at the piece with fresh eyes and redesign it based on what's left

Either way, put the angle grinder in the drawer of unused tools, and work with something safer and more controllable.

- Greg
 
Count, that sounds like major accident waiting to happen!!!

It's not that big of a deal to cut into your profile scribe lines, you just compenate and redesign your blade. Learn how to use your tool better and make sure you have the right disks on. Use a cutting disk to cut and a grinding disk to profile.
 
OK. I would like to explain some things that give some measure of validity to what I am saying. first of all, I do not have a car available. I can't just drive somewhere when I need supplies. I have to wait till someone is driving there and then go with them. that makes getting new supplies a pain. second, I have a budget each year that is probably the same as Nick Wheeler's sandpaper budget. I can't just go get more files on a whim. I have to wait till I have the time and money to get new supplies. this makes the angle grinder nice becuase of the relatively good durability and very low cost. however, there are a few things you have to do.

1. Always remove the big chunks with the cutoff wheel. if you try to do little stuff, then you are going to end up making mistakes.
2. Look down at the pattern. using the pattern facing toward you will not work very well and will cause you to run into the problems that you are having now.
3. Plan the cuts. don's just start cutting when you see something that needs to get cut. look at it, or you will have more work to do with the belt grinder/files later.
4. Use the grinding disk once you have the big chunks cut away. Use it sparingly, though. It will gouge if you aren't looking. a bench grinder is a good investment.
 
OK I am going to try and post this again as this the third time ( PC problems) lets hope that it is true, what they say about the third time being the charm!

You can cut out blades successfully with a right angle grinder. The hardest thing to learn is what you can and can't do with a right angle grinder and how to do the things you can do. First you have to let the blade do the cutting. If you force it you are one wearing out the blade prematurely and two probably not going to like the results that you get from your effort. A screwed up cut or a blade on the grinder exploding! You will learn to look thru and around the shower of sparks or at least when to stop and take a better look at your cut before you go to far.

First thing you need to learn is on curves you kind of let the blade skate to get started and that is even good to do on a straight cut, but a curve demands that you keep the skating effort up or the blade will bind and that not going to be good. In other words the first pass or two is just to establish the groove that you will be following with the blade. You will need to leave at least approximately 1/8" minimum around the outline of the finished blade. This last 1/8" will be taken off at the grinder or at the drill press with a drum sanding attachment, or by file.

I have a hand drawn drawing that I am going to upload. Look at the direction of the arrows around the profile of the blade. They would indicate how I would approach cutting out this blade on a right angle grinder. In fact most of this one was cut by a right angle grinder and some of it was done with this.
000_1196.jpg


My porta band saw which I did not have when I first started . Even with this type of saw there are cuts that can't be made in one pass. It is still impossible to cut a tight radius without binding the blade and that is something you want to avoid on a band saw too!


forge.jpg


On the curve of the handle I can cut it within a 1/8" in most places and the final shape was done on a grinder or by file as previously stated. In the tight area I had to do straight in cut in a series of V's to either make the metal fall away or sometimes the slices are small enough that they can be broke out. These are the areas that more or less in some cases have to be finished profiled with a small wheel, drum sander or file.

I hope this helps too explain how to do the cutting with a right angle grinder!

Or, put the angle grinder in the vise and hold the steel so you can see it and control it.
I agree this is an accident waiting to happen! And with a thin metal cutting blade it will jerk your hand into the blade before you can stop it and a cut will ensue or worse. I have been cut with a metal cutting blade in a kick back and it hurts like hell and it doesn't cut flesh nearly as smooth as it cuts metal! I was on a scaffold two stories up trying to cut a door into a metal barn. Luckily it resulted on a surface cut that left a small scar instead of leaving a finger laying on the floor. This is why I now always use my right angle grinder with the supplied handle. Two hands on the tool keeps one of them from getting somewhere it shouldn't and it gives me more control of how I am using the grinder. I won't make a cut anymore that I can't do without using both hands. Those are the ones you had better figure out some other way to do.
I always clamp the piece with at least one clamp and sometimes two if possible. I have learned from my mistakes. I will destroy the blade the blank but I always try to put myself in a position so that its not me that gets destroyed. If you know what I mean. This kind of stuff is inherently dangerous so don't make it worse than it is.

Maybe count was talking about grinding and not cutting out with a metal blade. That would make it like taking the piece too your grinder to do the work. Now I could find that acceptable but there is no way I would try it with a metal cutting blade. That's kind of like peeling back the guard on the skill saw and trying to cut by shoving the piece of wood into the blade. NOT A GOOD IDEA!
 
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Geek, one thing to bear in mind, you don't have to buy your tools at a store. Especially for those of us that aren't exactly making a living doing this, buying files at local flea markets, garage sales or swap meets gives you access to a lot of tools for a tiny fraction of the cost of buying new ones. Most of the larger files I use for knife making were acquired from a tool dealer at a swap meet (in tiny Monroe, WA of all places) that sells them for 50 cents to a dollar each. I bought most of the smaller files for 20 cents apiece or less. I do buy a lot of files, but at these prices, it makes little or no dent in the budget. I do buy some from Harbor Freight too, but only when they are on sale for $1.99 or less. They aren't as good as the ones I get at swap meets and garage sales, though... but they are new, for what that's worth.

Your budget and lack of transportation are limiting factors, to be sure... but they don't have to force you to do something unsafe.
 
Get an 1/8 inch drill bit (HSS, Ti, etc) or larger rated for steel, rough out the outline giving yourself about 1/8 inch from the outside of the drill hole to your sharpie line. Use the angle grinder to cut off the big chunks, grind the smaller ones away on a belt sander.

If it's a tight space use a dremel w/ a cutoff wheel or a jewelers saw.

The most important lesson - you can always take more away but you can't put it back. Oh yeah and if your using the angle grinder - but on a leather apron or leather jacket, them sparks are hot.
 
Geek, one thing to bear in mind, you don't have to buy your tools at a store. Especially for those of us that aren't exactly making a living doing this, buying files at local flea markets, garage sales or swap meets gives you access to a lot of tools for a tiny fraction of the cost of buying new ones. Most of the larger files I use for knife making were acquired from a tool dealer at a swap meet (in tiny Monroe, WA of all places) that sells them for 50 cents to a dollar each. I bought most of the smaller files for 20 cents apiece or less. I do buy a lot of files, but at these prices, it makes little or no dent in the budget. I do buy some from Harbor Freight too, but only when they are on sale for $1.99 or less. They aren't as good as the ones I get at swap meets and garage sales, though... but they are new, for what that's worth.

Your budget and lack of transportation are limiting factors, to be sure... but they don't have to force you to do something unsafe.

I live in the boonies a bit, and so garage sales are a pain to come by. if there are any, they are 10-15 miles away and so also require a driver. I am working on it, but right now, they are somewhat out of the question.

also, an angle grinder is not inherently unsafe. they are unsafe, however, if you try to get them to do something they aren't meant to do.
 
Maybe count was talking about grinding and not cutting out with a metal blade.
That would make it like taking the piece too your grinder to do the work.

Now I could find that acceptable

Yes that is what I was refereeing to, a way of rough profiling that will allow him to see the line.

I've done it as a way to reduce belt use on rough profiling.

You can mount the angle grinder in a way that you use the vise jaws as a tool rest.
Not much different than a hard wheel or belt grinder.


I think it's safer.
When you freehand the grinder, if the wheel catches it pushes the grinder away & possibly towards you.
 
Count,
I normally like everything you post......
But the angle grinder in a vise with hand held steel is just asking for the steel to catch and become a missile, or to pull your fingers into the wheel, or to have the wheel explode and take parts of your anatomy away. The biggest reason is that the speed of an angle grinder is usually too fast. I'll be blunt - It is a dumb idea.

It would be better to spend $20 and get a bench grinder made to do the task. I bet if one checked with a few friends and family, they could find a free bench grinder.

In am not just being an old fuddy-duddy here. I have been using an angle grinder to cut notches in angle iron and had a wheel explode. It shot pieces all over the shop. One piece hit my ankle and cut it . If it had hit something more vital, like an eye that was lined up with the wheel, it would have been tragic.
 
This kind of stuff is inherently dangerous so don't make it worse than it is.

I live in the boonies a bit, and so garage sales are a pain to come by. if there are any, they are 10-15 miles away and so also require a driver. I am working on it, but right now, they are somewhat out of the question.

also, an angle grinder is not inherently unsafe. they are unsafe, however, if you try to get them to do something they aren't meant to do.

Let me clarify what I meant when I said this kind of stuff is inherently dangerous. I was referring to the use of any power tool. And anytime you don't think they are dangerous whether you consider them proper for the use or not you are becoming complacent and that is when you get hurt. In the knife business most people use several different kinds of power tools and forges, hammers and other tools. Thus this kind of stuff (KNIFE MAKING IN GENERAL) is inherently dangerous so don't make it worse by doing something stupid! If you don't believe me just start a thread about accidents while making knives!:D
I have seen a few of the scars some have shown on this forum over the past few years and I have a couple of minor ones myself!

Back to the original question the screech of the drill bit may one of several things. You are trying to cut at to fast a speed. Your drill bits are dull and it is putting a strain on the belt. Or it could be the belt needs re-tensioned or replaced! Or the steel is not annealed!
 
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A lot of this thread has answered quite a few question I had left unsaid, thank you all for the input. To answer some questions to me ...

the drill press is fairly new, it is a craftsman and the bits I were using were all new and sharp stainless steel drill bits all HCC cobalts. I have my belt on the speed it recommends for the thickness of steel I was drilling. I did not use any lubrication but didnt think that would have been a problem. The belt is on the top tier of the 3 wheels.

On the bench grinder.. I have this one here I purchased a year ago
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=craftsman+bench+grinder&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=507&tbm=isch&tbnid=XnHS_Jijt1GifM:&imgrefurl=http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-professional-variable-speed-8-34-bench-grinder-21162/p-00921162000P&docid=T0IhGS9f5_qn_M&imgurl=http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/00921162000-1%253Fhei%253D400%2526wid%253D400%2526op_sharpen%253D1%2526qlt%253D90,0%2526resMode%253Dsharp%2526op_usm%253D0.9,0.5,0,0&w=400&h=400&ei=DfnBTqrZBobZ0QGapLWXDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=252&vpy=139&dur=2792&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=136&ty=108&sig=117896946192352879303&page=1&tbnh=144&tbnw=142&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0

Every time I take steel to the wheel all it ever does is gouge the crap out of it,burr it up and burn *temper* the steel...so I sat it aside and havent used it since. When touching the steel to the grinding wheel it is really jumpy and just chucks right at the steel *vibrates your hand a lot if this helps picture a problem*. I'm using the wheel it came with...is this possibly why? Or is this user error?
Maybe it is supposed to do this but it just didn't seem right to me when I used it...it ruined a lot of my steel by burning it or gouging it out too much.
 
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What speed is your drill press running at exactly?

Another culprit of squeaking is your drill table not being level, or the stock being drilled not being level with the table itself. Meaning when you press down on the stock for the first time it pushes the piece flat, but as it starts cutting into the hole it springs back up and slightly binds on the bit.. Hope that makes sense, but I've smoked several bits that way and had a few helicopters that woke me up. So I would start by making sure the chuck is at a perfect 90degrees to you drill table and that the table is flat and clean from debris that could bend your piece when it is clamped down.
 
What speed is your drill press running at exactly?

That's my question too.

I have my belt on the speed it recommends for the thickness of steel I was drilling.

The belt is on the top tier of the 3 wheels.

What speed are you actually using?
there should be a chart to figure it out.

What size is the drill bit?

All drill speed charts I have seen use drill bit diameter, not steel thickness to recommend an rpm.


On my drill press, the topmost tier of 3 wheels is the fastest speed and WAY too fast for drilling a pin sized hole in steel.
 
Correction, it is a 5 speed. The chart says for 5/32" to go to the second spindle from the top one which is 2080 RPM. So my speed is set to 2080 rpm. I'm using a 7/32" bit.

For the bench grinder this is what it does
you can see the temper it made from burning the steel which happens right away if I push a fair amount into the wheel. But when I do push into the wheel it doesn't want to remove steel *I am using 154cm annealed*. You can see how much of the steel was removed from this piece..but it took a really good amount of push to take it off and the more push the more burning & burring. I didn't think the bench grinder would be good for removing the excess steel from the knife shape since there is quite a bit and the bench grinder doesn't take steel off easily or much at all. The edge of this also burred up like I mentioned. It doesn't look like a lot in the picture but when I keep grinding it gets bigger and bigger.

I just took this piece to it a few minutes ago but when grinding a lot of steel it gouges really bad. By that I mean that big bur gets bigger and thicker...and the steel gets burnt in more area coverage.

1218rqs.jpg


2n893ys.jpg


1qh2ms.jpg


Mine is the craftsman 6 inch grinding station variable speed. I've tried grinding with low-medium-and fast speeds.. just doesn't want to grind right.
 
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