Random thoughts on ZT LEs

[ar11]

Over my morning coffee was thinking about the 3 LE ZTs I own.

ZT 0560 CBCF - MSRP was $425 (most bought for $350ish?).. This was my first LE, and I was so excited to get it having already owned a regular 0560. The differences were really apparent comparing against the production, as the machining and fit/finish was much higher quality. The composite blade, high quality machining, and CF Scales are easily worth the additional $150. Bummer that stock pivot and screws were used on this special version. Blade action is smooth, wish it was snappier, lock is a bit sticky but will probably loosen over time. I'll probably dump my regular 0560 at some point given how much nicer this one is.

ZT 0392 - MSRP $400 - I really like this knife, more than I thought I would, it shows better in person. Extremely comfortable in my middle size hands, and so overbuilt. Advantage is that there is no production ZT model, so there's exclusivity. Fit finish is great, but that darn detent is super stubborn out of the box. So stubborn I feel like a little bitch because it hurts that bad. The hardware was obviously a selling point, only wished the used a slightly fancier pocket clip, although spoon clip fits in with the rugged theme of the knife. Blade OOTB is slightly tight, doesn't really drop smoothly yet.

ZT 0454 - MSRP $500 - Far and away worth the asking price and more. Like sexy sports car among brand portfolio of rugged trucks. Everything was perfect OOTB, only time I've bought a knife and not found myself wanting more. I really like how they did the lock bar, not falling back on the standard frame lock. There's no need to watch finger placement when flipping, it just rockets out. Clip, lock, blade, detent, contoured scales - it all works. Flipping action is the most satisfying on this knife as well balance is great. Even my non-knife friends are blown away seeing this knife.

On the value spectrum, the 0454 was definitely the steal. 0452 may be half the price, but features are night and day. People balked at the $500 asking price, but really so flawless. I've never owned a custom but I have a feeling this is what it would feel like. For the 0392, I wish I could hold an eklipse to compare against, but in some ways the features exceed whats offered on the more expensive eklipse (titanium scales + bearings). Hopefully ZT does not dilute the exclusivity by offering a production version. 0560CBCF, definitely worth the asking price, it does what all the pimpers were doing with the CF scales but throws in the Composite blade and better machining to boot.

I was really happy when ZT started selling their Limited Editions online for all to have. No longer were the LEs limited to Dealers who would pawn them off to their "friends" and best customers before anyone else could get hands on them. Hopefully the online ordering hitches get worked out in the future.

Do you guys think the ZT LE's are worth MSRP and/or Market Price? I've been pleasantly surprised so far.

 

[motts]

In my experience, their Limited Editions are most definitely worth the market price. I haven't been able to score many, but I have a 0392BWBRZ, and I love it. I know many don't like the idea behind Limited Edition knives where there's not enough to go around for everybody. But, that's part of the appeal to me...having something limited. If I don't score, I don't score. Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield...but I digress.

I hope ZT continues to offer these LE pieces. They bring some fun and excitement and keep things interesting...especially for people who may be tired of general production knives, but don't want to drop so much money on full customs.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

They're not my thing, but people love them and that's reason enough to hope ZT keeps making them.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

The only LE I have is the 0454, and it's a great knife. However, I wouldn't go as far as saying it's worth more, or that it probably feels like a custom. That's a vague statement, and depends on what customs were talking about.

It's smoothness is on par with the 0562, and the flipping action isn't the best when compared to customs in a similar price range. Heck, the action is comparable to the 0452, just with a stronger detent. Similar flipping action can be had for much less. But if it's the look that is worth it to you, then that's understandable. Nobody else has made a production Cardinator...

 

[jprime84]

From the ones I have handled, and the few I have owned, they are absolutely worth the retail price. Most are worth a bit of secondary markup too. There are a few models that I would have a hard time justifying the secondary market for, but those tend to go for $1000+ due to rarity.

Overall, I plan to at least be able to check out any ZT LE in person from now on if I can!

 

[n850gt]

I never believed I would get my hands on the 0454 at release and I chalked it up to a secondary market, greater than MSRP buy. After ZT changed their selling methods I was able to snag one. I've managed to get my hands on each KAI LE release since the 0454; the Ruby, 0801S110V (limited production), 0392, 0392BWBRZ. I enjoy them and think they're worth the cost.

The two LE's I'm missing from my collection are the 0888MAX and 0600BLK. I'm missing a few more of the limited production/dealer exclusive 0350's as well.

 

[ar11]

The only LE I have is the 0454, and it's a great knife. However, I wouldn't go as far as saying it's worth more, or that it probably feels like a custom. That's a vague statement, and depends on what customs were talking about.

It's smoothness is on par with the 0562, and the flipping action isn't the best when compared to customs in a similar price range. Heck, the action is comparable to the 0452, just with a stronger detent. Similar flipping action can be had for much less. But if it's the look that is worth it to you, then that's understandable. Nobody else has made a production Cardinator...

True I might be overly generous comparing to custom, and being the cheapass that I am, I will probably never know. I should've prefaced my comments about flipping actions by saying its all subjective, but definitely the knife I got was right up my alley. My main gripe with the 0392 is the strong detent, being a limited edition knife, you'd think that during quality checks they would've noticed how much tougher the dentent is. I've had about 8 ZT knives and none of them had dentents even close to that tough.

 

[flarp]

I don't have many ZT LE's, but I have been completely blown away by the ones I do have (0560CBCF, 0454, 0392). As for if they are "worth it", that's obviously going to vary by person. But for me, I've been very happy with the ones I've gotten.

 

[Shaggy]

ZT LE's are some of the nicest blades being released; the company has really been firing on all cylinders with respect to materials and design form. That said, I've given up collecting ZT's for now: the cluster&%* trying to get a 0392 has really turned me off to the whole idea. I was fortunate enough to score an 801CF when they randomly popped up on distributor sites. It's a beautiful knife and well-worth the (retail) price IMO, as are most of the LE's.

 

[alphatiger]

So, looking down the road, are we thinking that ZT LE's will go way up in price or in 10 years if I decide to sell my 0392BRBRZ I'll be looking at $600 in the secondary market? OR more OR less? Any long time collectors have thoughts with other Limited Editions?

 

[ccheezy]

I am in search of the elusive ZT 0560 CBCF and ZT 801 BWBRZ....

 

[BenLong1018]

I completely disagree I think that ZT should make a production version of the 0392 because it's an amazing design that those of us that weren't fortunate enough to buy it at regular price, and those of us that absolutely refuse to pay the absurd inflated aftermarket prices can enjoy it as well.

 

[ar11]

I completely disagree I think that ZT should make a production version of the 0392 because it's an amazing design that those of us that weren't fortunate enough to buy it at regular price, and those of us that absolutely refuse to pay the absurd inflated aftermarket prices can enjoy it as well.

Although I wish they will keep the 0392 exclusive to LE, I'm pretty sure they will make production versions as they have with most of their other models. Likely they contract with Hinderer for the basic model, then make interations of it across the Kershaw / ZT lines.

So, looking down the road, are we thinking that ZT LE's will go way up in price or in 10 years if I decide to sell my 0392BRBRZ I'll be looking at $600 in the secondary market? OR more OR less? Any long time collectors have thoughts with other Limited Editions?

It probably depends on the LE. For the 0392, I can see the price curve flattening if they continue to release more LEs. Although if they never release a production 0392 the LEs will hold value well (unlikely) The ones most likely to hold the strongest values are the halo models 777 (herringbone esp), 888, and 0454. The machine work and detail on those models are far above what the average ZTs offer.

 

[Comedie]

I completely disagree I think that ZT should make a production version of the 0392 because it's an amazing design that those of us that weren't fortunate enough to buy it at regular price, and those of us that absolutely refuse to pay the absurd inflated aftermarket prices can enjoy it as well.

Hope so. Personally I don't want trailer queens, but blades in my pocket that get used and occasionally abused. Seems ZT is backing off into S35V for the newer production releases, while I was hoping for more like M390 and 204P, and blade lengths closer to 3.75" or so. 0200 is what I currently pocket most of the time, but could be a bit skinnier.
Fine if they want to make pricey trailer queens, but if they don't fall over into production versions I'll end up getting other things. Spyderco has a couple I'll probably try out. Not crazy about their designs, but they are utilitarian, and have some interesting steels in production like 10V and H1 that have their niches.

 

[asdf12345]

So, looking down the road, are we thinking that ZT LE's will go way up in price or in 10 years if I decide to sell my 0392BRBRZ I'll be looking at $600 in the secondary market? OR more OR less? Any long time collectors have thoughts with other Limited Editions?

If they keep doing so many limited editions, I doubt the value will hold long term. There's already a dizzying array of ZT LEs. Many of which are amazing knives representing technical and aesthetic achievements.

However, the more LEs there are collectively, the less cachet & prestige will come with owning "a Zero Tolerance Limited Edition", reducing demand.

 

[n850gt]

If they keep doing so many limited editions, I doubt the value will hold long term. There's already a dizzying array of ZT LEs. Many of which are amazing knives representing technical and aesthetic achievements.

However, the more LEs there are collectively, the less cachet & prestige will come with owning "a Zero Tolerance Limited Edition", reducing demand.

I'll disagree, but you have a point. It depends entirely on the knife, the condition and number for sale at any given time. While some LE's are relatively easy to come by, many are not. It's the availability of the individual knife models vs. demand for those particular models that determines value.

No matter how many LE's Zero Tolerance produces, the 0600BLK, 0777 composite, the 0888's and a few others will forever retain their value. The demand for these knives will remain frozen despite the vast number of current and future LE releases.

That being said, if one buys LE knives because one thinks they'll grow in value, that person would be better off putting their money into a money market account. It'll grow at a faster rate in line with inflation. Knives, with rare exception, are not good investments.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

I'll disagree, but you have a point. It depends entirely on the knife, the condition and number for sale at any given time. While some LE's are relatively easy to come by, many are not. It's the availability of the individual knife models vs. demand for those particular models that determines value.

No matter how many LE's Zero Tolerance produces, the 0600BLK, 0777 composite, the 0888's and a few others will forever retain their value. The demand for these knives will remain frozen despite the vast number of current and future LE releases.

That being said, if one buys LE knives because one thinks they'll grow in value, that person would be better off putting their money into a money market account. It'll grow at a faster rate in line with inflation. Knives, with rare exception, are not good investments.

The only time I've saw a knife become "investment worthy" is when a very well regarded maker (such as Loveless) passes away. And still, that could be a very long wait.

Imagine the day when Bob Terzoula dies, I'm sure his knives will skyrocket in price upward of $10,000-20,000...

 

[asdf12345]

The only time I've saw a knife become "investment worthy" is when a very well regarded maker (such as Loveless) passes away. And still, that could be a very long wait.

Imagine the day when Bob Terzoula dies, I'm sure his knives will skyrocket in price upward of $10,000-20,000...

I've always been curious about when a knifemaker dies. You would think that the knife prices will go up astronomically.

But consider this... if you have a problem with your knife, it will be literally impossible to have work done on it without destroying its value as it would then have components that were made and finished by a third party. When you buy a $10,000 Loveless, you're not buying it because it's $10,000 good for cutting. You're buying it because Loveless made it.

Not to mention parts that can never be reproduced like the Terzuola medallion, the injection molded carbon fiber handles he used for some of his knives, the ceramic blades on the Single Issue one offs...

What will be especially sad is that the prices will rise but less people will be willing to go out and carry and use the knives. Honestly who goes out and hard uses their $30,000 Loveless?

My ATCF cut like nobody's business. But it had a number of unique components that could never be satisfactorily replaced by another knifemaker - such as the injection molded carbon fiber, the Terzuola medallion, the specially finished & anodized liners, the polished stonewash, the logo, and the individually made pocket clip.

 

[Jasonsdman]

Regardless of what they do in the future with the 0392 series, I will always think they are worth at least sub $400 price. 0392 > Eklipse. So unless the price of the Eklipse all of a sudden takes a price break to under $400, I'm not too worried about the value of the 0392 at all. If ZT waters down the pattern in the future, I'm sure it won't affect the 0392 just like all these 0452 and 0450 don't really affect the value of the 0454. Any future 0392 release will still be LE and sell for around $400, so it will still be limited availability.

The 0392 judged on it's own does seem like an expensive knife for plain titanium flipper. Is the design, the in hand feel, the fancy RHK harware, and the quality of ZT make it worth $400? Everyone has an opinion on that, and it will most likely not be the same. I am not keeping mine simply because it's an LE, but because I answered yes to the previous question.

 

[poolhustler]

If they keep doing so many limited editions, I doubt the value will hold long term. There's already a dizzying array of ZT LEs. Many of which are amazing knives representing technical and aesthetic achievements.

However, the more LEs there are collectively, the less cachet & prestige will come with owning "a Zero Tolerance Limited Edition", reducing demand.

I agree and disagree. It really depends on the LE itself and how many of that particular model/release are made.

If you look at the original 0777, they are selling for close to $2,000 right now. This is because of the popularity of the design and the very limited number of them that hit the street.

If you look at the 0560CBCF, they are not selling for a premium because there were plenty made to go around.

So it basically depends on certain variables for each particular knife.