Random Thoughts

[Mike Goldbach]

I'm new to the list, but here's a few thoughts I have:
1. Most survival situations, (hunter caught in a storm as night falls, snowmobile breaks down, etc.), are about staying warm and dry for 2 or 3 days until you are found.
2. Making your location known is of a higher priority than eating.
3. Fishing gear and animal snares are not very important to have in your survival kit.
4. Navigating your way out, in most cases, is a last ditch strategy.

Comments?
MG

 

[Hoodoo]

I would rather be overprepared than underprepared. Fishhooks and snares probably take up some of the least amount of space in my survival kit. I doubt that I would leave them out.

I've been hiking in the Missions, Selway-Bitterroot and Bob Marshall where a broken ankle might mean weeks before I could make it out. After all, it took me a week to make it as far in as I did and that was under normal power. A typical two week hike means no one would be expecting me for at least a week. And then they would have to find me in over 1 million acres of wilderness. And I don't always follow the trails.

I just don't believe in underplanning nor underanticipating. Many a pilgrim died of starvation. It's not coincidence that the first chapter in Bradford Angier's classic "How to Stay Alive in the Woods" was on sustenance.

Of course nowadays, wilderness isn't what it once was. Helicopters come in and pluck people off the sides of mountains. All you have to do is give a yell on your cell phone and the calvary will come running. Still, I'm for contingency planning, and that includes planning for more than keeping warm and dry until the calvary comes running. And I don't particularly care for cell phones.
And I'm not one to trust my ultimate fate to the probability that others will eventually find me if I become stranded somewhere. Granted, staying put and conserving energy is important but not 100 percent foolproof. Nor does the passive approach appeal to my sense of self-reliance. I prefer to hone all my survival skills, not just some. Using only one approach for survival planning in the blind allegiance to the idea that others will come and save me because the statistical averages favor that scenario is not appealing to me in the least. Like any normal bell curve, you have about a 10% chance to be on the trailing end of the distribution. I prefer to tip the odds in my favor. Learn all you can, hone your skills before you head off in the toolies (practice at every opportunity), carry what is reasonable, prepare for the worst-case scenario, or stay home. Just my 2 cents.



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Hoodoo

And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.

Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom

 

[BMWGS80]

AMEN! Hoodoo.

Cheers,

ts

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Guns are for show. Knifes are for Pros.

 

[J. J. Magnum]

Hoodoo I'd say your two cents is worth at least $1.98 any where! Now that's a good investment.
I remind our new compatriot of the Seven P's of successful operations "Prior Proper Planning, Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance!" 'Nuff said

 

[Plainsman]

Skills and Gear:

"Better to have and not need, than to need and not have!"

My $.02 worth!

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Plainsman
primitiveguy@hotmail.com
<A HREF="http://pub7.ezboard.com/bplainsmanscabin.html" TARGET=_blank>
Plainsman's Cabin Forums</A>

 

[HM]

Hi Mike,

First of all, welcome aboard!
Second, about your "Random Thoughts". That might be practically true for -hopefully- most of the cases. Waiting out for the rescuers for a 2-3 day period is a totally feaseble plan in some cases. However, it can hardly be generalized. The survival situation exactly because of its unplanned nature involves a lot of uncertainty. Taking anything granted (like arrival of a rescue team) might result in cruel surprise.
Furthermore, what if we have to survive on some exotic location? (Look out for Brian Jones adventures in Belize

)
All-in-all, gi'me that fishing kit and snares!

Best,

HM

 

[Michael Bennett]

Mike,

So number three translates to you betting your life that someone will come and get you before you need to catch food? I concur with Hoodoo - they take up next to nothing in weight. Why wouldn't you take them?

Mike

 

[CAman]

Mike, welcome aboard.

The distance determines whether you should take food, I think. If you are within a good day's walk of a place, no need to take fishing hooks and wire. Otherwise, you might have to, especially if you get injured and can't make that distance.

 

[Stryver]

If I'm in a situation where I can feasibly expect someone to rescue me in a decent amount of time (Under one week) I have no problem entering the situation with no food. Most 'unexpected' survival situations people get into are near populated/traveled areas, and are relatively easy to get 'found' in.

I wouldn't say you need to carry food or snares/fishing stuff when you hike around town, or drive a little ways (unless you live up here, and hte town you drive to 150 miles away is the only one in that direction) or other similar situations. But if you intend on taking two week backpacking trips, well, I hope you bring food.

As far as snares and fishing stuff, as long as you know how to whittle a figure-four deadfall, or weave a quick fish basket, you'll never need fear going without food.

Here in Alaska, I would put bug dope and a mosquito headnet far above food. I'd probably put them right behind the ubiquitous fire starter, pot and knife, and before a space blanket.

Stryver

 

[Hoodoo]

Originally posted by Stryver:
But if you intend on taking two week backpacking trips, well, I hope you bring food.

As far as snares and fishing stuff, as long as you know how to whittle a figure-four deadfall, or weave a quick fish basket, you'll never need fear going without food.


Stryver

I did take two weeks of food but a grizzly bear ate it after he knocked me down and broke my ankle. And I left my knife at home thinkin' I didn't need one (cause it's low on my priority list

) so I can't whittle anything. Now what am I gonna do?

He bit my cell phone in half too. I still have my pot though.

------------------
Hoodoo

And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.

Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom

 

[Stryver]

Originally posted by Hoodoo:
I did take two weeks of food but a grizzly bear ate it after he knocked me down and broke my ankle. And I left my knife at home thinkin' I didn't need one (cause it's low on my priority list

) so I can't whittle anything. Now what am I gonna do?

He bit my cell phone in half too. I still have my pot though.

Do I still have a metal match in my pocket? If so, I can strike it with a quartz-like rock to light a fire, and I can build shelter with my bare hands...

(Or, if it's the blast-force that rides in my pocket, it already has a striker, and I have _my own_ tinder packed inside...

)

This, combined with the pot, provides me with water, shelter, warmth and signaling. Food can be gathered with some effort, knowledge and a little luck, and I can make a fish-basket if there's a river/lake around. I can probably make useful figure four deadfall triggers with nothing sharper than a rock (Hmmm... I should try this...) I think paiute triggers would be easier to make with no knife, but they do require some string material, and I am not skilled in making paiute triggers.

I never said a knife is low on my priorities, in fact, I am rarely without one (or three or four...), but I would rank a firestarter higher on my list, and a knife is much easier to improvise in the wilds than a pot, and so a pot would rank higher on my list of necessities. The knife makes tasks easier, the pot makes impossible tasks possible. (particularly boiling water for the 5 - 10 minutes at a rolling boil reccommended for purification).


Stryver, Yeah, I know, it's not really _impossible_, but a 5 minute rolling boil in a grass basket ranks somewhere after fire with a hand-drill in a rain storm.

 

[Hoodoo]

Let's be practical. It's likely that the choice will never be between a pot and a knife. You are much more likely to have a knife on your person than a pot. But along with your firestarter you can easily carry water purification tablets and a couple of condoms and a quart baggy. A pot is great but I wouldn't hone my survival skills counting on a pot.

BTW, a knife can be used to make a wooden bowl and water can be boiled in just about anything by heating rocks and putting them in the water (or just dig a hole in a log and build your fire close to the log). We used to do this back when I was a youngster in Boy Scouts when we had what we called our "caveman campouts."

Even a hole dug in clay can be used. If you are really stranded and have time on your hands, you can dig some clay and fire a pot.

I agree with you that a pot would be high on my list but the reality COULD be that a pot is something that you will have to improvise. If you have a pot then you likey have other large things that will keep you comfy. A few fish hooks and some snare wire are a lot easier to carry than a pot and therefore it the SHTF, more likely that you will have them. Carry a big snare, snag a deer, and you can make a nice skin pot for boiling water the hot rock method. And something that I have in my small kit is a piece of 12x12 aluminum foil. Dig a hole, line it with foil and you have your pot. You can carry a lot of aluminum foil more easily than a pot.


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Hoodoo

And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.

Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom

 

[e_utopia]

I have to agree with Hoodoo on this; a pot is hard to keep on your person (although recently someone was talking about those aluminum foil pouches you can buy). Plus, crafting a pot would help to keep you occupied, which I've heard is very important to avoid depression (and general boredom) in a survival situation. I think I have to put large items like a pot or a camp stove much farther down my list.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

 

[bill clancy]

With my luck the cell phone wouldn't work where I was anyway.

 

[FNG]

Well,as this is random thoughts

oc Ron knows me a bit.I`ve spent some time in ID.

I`ve never been lost.I have been bewildered for a few days.You mistake a drainage in the Sawtooths,so what?You weren`t going anywhere in particular in the first place.now it will take you longer to get there.Water runs downhill.From the Divide;you`ll get to the sea eventually.

Your mission may be elk.It may be naught.You`ll still need weapons.Same thing.If you pack into the back country;just relax.If you don`t have the time to do that;you might consider a situation that you have better time control over.

I was in the INF.I went through all of the schools.We had fire and light dicipline,which takes all of the fun out of it.Unless,of course, you are killing your enemey.Then the discomfort is worth it.

If you are on your own;a thousand miles from nowhere and no place you`d rather be;enjoy it.

You can live high on the hog in the Mtns.Sure,a horse can kick you.You can break a leg.Others have lived through worse without the USCG.I`m not saying that a signel mirror is not worth having.The chances of an aircraft coming overhead are close to zero.

Now, if you file the equivalent of a flight plan with somebody,some of what ya`ll are saying starts to make sense.

Make a comfortable camp,if you like where you are.Surely, a day will do it.Set up a nice lean to with a bough bed,heat reflector,a meat rack,a fire spit;anything you need.Heck,build a chair.

Have some fun.Don`t make it tough on yourself.If you are having fun;you won`t even want to be "rescued".

 

[Stryver]

Originally posted by Hoodoo:
Let's be practical. It's likely that the choice will never be between a pot and a knife. You are much more likely to have a knife on your person than a pot. But along with your firestarter you can easily carry water purification tablets and a couple of condoms and a quart baggy. A pot is great but I wouldn't hone my survival skills counting on a pot.

BTW, a knife can be used to make a wooden bowl and water can be boiled in just about anything by heating rocks and putting them in the water (or just dig a hole in a log and build your fire close to the log). We used to do this back when I was a youngster in Boy Scouts when we had what we called our "caveman campouts."

I agree, it is more likely that I will have a knife than a pot. But, you can stick a nice pot in any survival kit bigger than your wallet. Use a tin can to pack all the goodies in. If you can find two that fit into one another, then you can have one to boil in, and one to let cool to a drinkable temp.

When it comes to improvising pots, I will not say it's impossible, merely that I think it would be difficult for me to boil wter for 5 minutes in an improvised one, though the log next to a fire sounds possible. Most of the pit ideas are tough, because you need a dipper of some sort, though while waiting for it all to heat, you could carve a dipper.

On a seperate thread, a story 'bout a trapper who tipped over his canoe was mentioned. The trapper spoke of a birch-bark 'rogan' (sp?). Was the design to this something unique? And how easy would it be to boil water in it?


Stryver

 

[TimmyTheTalkingToilet]

well I say that you should stick with the pot, because you can't tear holes in it, and you could use it to beat a slow animal to death with it.

 

[Hoodoo]

Originally posted by Stryver:

On a seperate thread, a story 'bout a trapper who tipped over his canoe was mentioned. The trapper spoke of a birch-bark 'rogan' (sp?). Was the design to this something unique? And how easy would it be to boil water in it?
Stryver

Boiling in bark containers is covered in Ellsworth Jaeger's book Wildwood Wisdom. He talks about making bark kettles as well as a whole bunch of other bark utensils. Good drawings.

According to Jaeger: "There are two methods of boiling in a bark container. One way is to drop hot pebbles into the water until it boils; the other is to place the bark kettle, filled with water, directly upon a bed of coals. This may sound like a tall story, but it can be done, provided no flame touches the bark above the water line. It seems the water inside the bark utensil constantly absorbs the heat, thus preventing the bark from catching fire. In making the bark kettle, the outer surface should be smooth and entirely free of any projecting curls of bark. The water-filled bark kettle may be placed directly upon the coals, covering the fire all around it with ashes, so that no flame will lick up the kettle's sides."

I'm assuming that this method is similar to what Rowland was referring to in boiling water in his birch-bark rogan.

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Hoodoo

And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.

Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom

 

[e_utopia]

Try it at home! Put some water in a paper cup and put it over a flame. As long as you keep the flame from touching the paper above the water line, it won't burn.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

 

[Stryver]

Originally posted by e_utopia:
Try it at home! Put some water in a paper cup and put it over a flame. As long as you keep the flame from touching the paper above the water line, it won't burn.

The paper cup I've seen & done before, but birch has some different properties than a paper cup. I will have to try that this weekend. I guess the question I had specifically, was how do you make it water-tight? The ways I can think of are flat-stitching with pine tar under the overlap, and folding like a chemistry filter. Anyone have a method they use with good success?

Stryver