random W&SS musings.......

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Oct 31, 2007
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Lots of us have our fuel stoves and pot sets for hiking. Lots of us have our SS bottles and portable can stoves to heat them......

basically we are using found materials, or canned fuel to heat our water.

lots of pieces involved.....stove, pots, windshields..............all in an effort to boil water and boil it efficiently.....

and YET............for hundreds of years, fisherman, hunters, hikers, farmers have all used something that does all that , yet it much simpler in design.

yes......ye old Ghillie Kettle, Kelly Kettle....

so simplistic in design, and yet so efficient. A tiny amount of grass or paper, or leaves or twigs and you have boiling water.





just some random musings.....

 
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As this thread is for musing two things immediately occur to me:

There are loads of things that people have used for hundreds of years that are more simple than the kind of things we have now, and they have been surpassed because people at the time were unsatisfied with their operation and wanted something better. I know some old things have been hard to improve on such as leather, but even that is losing ground constantly as better materials, designs, and methods of manufacture are being introduced. Not like I have a beef with this kettle because it uses old methods, in fact I rather fancy one for heavy trips to the beach, but your appeal to something being desirable because it has a long history is something I find perplexing. Loads of things that are simple and have a long history are awful. I don't need to look much further back than Victorian England with something like The Book of The Farm to see times were crap. I know it's not a popular view here because of the strong retro following but as we're doing musings in this thread - what many find comfort and romance in comes across to me like; She sits in her hovel trying to thread a needle through dim eyes by the glow of a stinking oil lamp. Across the room her husband is huddled under a damp woolly blanked on a strained horse hair mattress. He tries to speak and hocks up a whelk into his toilet rag. She doesn't know if it is TB or pneumonia that has him yet but the bronchial irritants from the burning twigs sure aint helping. She wonders if it would be better to just freeze. - Well, apart from the freezing I guess that could be some third world villages today. I guess the moral to all this is that to include a spin based on the fact that something was used a long time ago, or that it has been used for a long time, is very precarious ground.

Now to home in more specifically;

“lots of pieces involved.....stove, pots, windshields..............all in an effort to boil water and boil it efficiently..... “

Is it all just in an effort to boil water? If that were the case I think on shorter trips I'd use a Thermos flask and back it up with a bit of tin foil. Whilst I am vaguely interested in a Kelly Kettle for going heavy at the beach the size and weight of the brute lack versatility for anything else I do. True, I suppose you could warm something through on the top but I doubt cooking on it would be much fun at all. The little mini one weighs nearly half a kilo and the others are between about a 1kg /2lbs to a whopping 1.53kg or nearly 3lbs. That's a lot of weight for very limited functionality. Add in a single bottle of water and that's nearly 5lbs for the all up weight of my Thermos flask full which doesn't way anything like that. Clearly not great for day trips. And on a longer trip in which everything has to be man-portable I certainly wouldn't want to carry it. I can see why they are popular on a kayak forum I frequent, but not on foot.

By contrast I use stoves from the little ones Pocket Rocket size run on canisters not much bigger than an AA Mag to the lumpen Coleman 442 at around 1.5lbs, and they are much more versatile. They make it easy to cook on and to cook well. The one below is my current workhorse. Whilst it is true the Kelly kettle is versatile in the sense that you can burn all sorts of things in it, that's still only the default position I am forced to should my burner fail – make a fire with something, stick pot on top. And that's in the event that my burner actually does fail. In the meantime real useful versatility comes from what I can do with the amount of size and weight allocated. That's easy, many stoves can do this but taking the example of the one below again. It has a remote bottle to it works in a good range of conditions. It has a pre-heater tube for the same. It chucks out a lot of heat and with the wide stable low profile I can stir fry with a wok on it, boil the kettle on it, do mundane reheating on it, in fact anything one can do on a domestic hob. If you can get the hang of the controls you can stick a biscuit tin on top and bake on it. All this with the convenience of location seldom being a factor Then there's that not only does it work immediately and offer me fine control I can also cook from a bivvy with little more space than a fat coffin. That's handy when you wake up in the morning or when it is raining especially. Then there's the convenient coffee stop along a route and so on.

Like I said, interesting thing for the beach and burning driftwood but I find it hard to ignore the impractical nature of it for carrying. For the amount of size and weight dedicated I can cook up a feast and that compares very favorable to Cupa-a-Soup to me. And if my preferred choice does go horribly wrong one day I'm only back to burning twigs 'till I get home anyway.

shdwee0os12525c4a.jpg
 
and when your stove runs out of liquid fuel? or needs parts?

see, back again to the simplicity of the Kelly....
 
Wow, that teapot has seen some love!!

I like the ghillie kettles, but they're pretty dang expensive. The efficiency is nice but most of the time I'm in no hurry to boil water. People like to compare boil times but the extra few minutes doesn't matter to me. I'll just find something to occupy my time while waiting for my water to boil.

99% of the time I want a fire anyway for heat, light, and morale. I just do my cooking and water heating over the fire. If I am not making a fire, I have a small stove for cooking that cost me much less than the ghillie kettle. One day I would like to try one, but I'd have to get it used or get a heck of a deal on it.

Just my 2 cents.
 
and when your stove runs out of liquid fuel? or needs parts?

see, back again to the simplicity of the Kelly....

But it could be years if ever between instances of that happening. As long as I can remember it has happened to me once with the Coleman. Solution - carry spare tube. In the meantime I'm way ahead. Just to be generous let's suppose I suffer a burner failure once every five years. Once every five years I have to burn sticks for the rest to that trip. That's a huge number of wins for one of my burners for every single win for burning twigs. On balance of weight and performance vs recourse to twig burning the ratio is massively more stacked in favor of the burner.
 
That kettle is pretty cool. I think the down side is its limited function of boiling water. It doesn't look like you could cook in it in addition to boiling water, which is a function of the separate burner and pot combo.

Still, I like that kettle.
 
I think the down side is its limited function of boiling water.
So you would have to have another stove for cooking
hmm-1.gif
?
Then what's the point of carrying two pieces of gear if one (regular stove, whatever model) can do both functions :rolleyes:?
 
I just boil my water in a billy can..then turn around and make chili in it..over an open fire...which i can make any time of year...
 
So you would have to have another stove for cooking
hmm-1.gif
?
Then what's the point of carrying two pieces of gear if one (regular stove, whatever model) can do both functions :rolleyes:?


Many people have streamlined their outdoors cooking so that all it requires is boiling water. That being the case, many will look for the lightest or fastest way to do just that.

I really like the idea of the kelly kettle and really wish somebody would make a small (water bottle size) version out of stainless or, dare I dream, titanium.
 
I love my aluminum kellie kettle. It may not be multi-functional but nothing is more efficient for boiling. 1.5 L boiling in 4 to 6 minutes with a couple handfuls of twigs and grass.

When all you want is a quick meal and not have to maintain and quench a fire it is great. As well when it is hot out and you don't want a fire but need dishwater etc.
A gsi .9 L kettle fits perfectly on the inner ring of the base, keeps warm on the coals.

I also like the no fuel carbon print idea. One of these and a good gassification stove and your cooking costs are nil. Not to mention effort in gathering fuel.
 
Many people have streamlined their outdoors cooking so that all it requires is boiling water. That being the case, many will look for the lightest or fastest way to do just that.

I really like the idea of the kelly kettle and really wish somebody would make a small (water bottle size) version out of stainless or, dare I dream, titanium.

They do make them outta stainless just not really small ones !

https://kellykettle.com/vmchk/Kelly-Kettles/NEW-Stainless-Steel-Kelly-Kettle®-3-Pint.html
 
Many people have streamlined their outdoors cooking so that all it requires is boiling water. That being the case, many will look for the lightest or fastest way to do just that.

I really like the idea of the kelly kettle and really wish somebody would make a small (water bottle size) version out of stainless or, dare I dream, titanium.


BINGO!

i can boil water in my KK and cook a meal over it. Most of my meals are BSE (BOIL, SOAK, EAT). If i'm camping, that means i have a truck, and if i have a truck, i have a field kitchen full of cast iron pots, pans, grills. But for hiking, KK is ultralight, simple, and there is an ENDLESS fuel supply.

I'm finding that the only time i really use my MSR Reactor anymore, is when i need to be stealthy, and not give away my camping spot to the rangers. Then i prefer my no smoke, no smell, no light signature camp stove.

the ability to burn anything in the KK means it has crossover usage too for urban survival.
 
BINGO!

I'm finding that the only time i really use my MSR Reactor anymore, is when i need to be stealthy, and not give away my camping spot to the rangers. Then i prefer my no smoke, no smell, no light signature camp stove.

.

Hahahahahha that's awesome!
 
Interesting thread.

I could really see carrying one if there's more than one person. One gets to carry that as their part of the community gear.

I tend to go old school with my cooking and water boiling: GI canteen cups and stove. Boil water in one cup, then pour it into the other cup with a tea bag. Let that one steep and cool enough to drink while I boil my "eating" water.

Beauty of the canteen is I can heat water with esbit or hexamine tabs, a wood fire, or I could use a stove if I wanted to carry the stove and fuel (if I do this, I usually just bring the brass stove from my Swedish mess kit, place it in a trench, and straddle the trench with the canteen cup.

If it's warm or hot out, I generally bring drink mix to drink cold (I like Vitalyte from REI for the potassium content), and bring food that doesn't need to be cooked.
 
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