Rant!

Vaporstang

Vaporstang

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
4,215
I know this is redundant - but I get tired of all the fake/suspicious CRKs on a certain site. I don't know how many I have reported to CRK, but I am sure they are spending a lot of time and resources (i.e., added costs to their fine products) to combat this. Arrrrrgh!!!!

Sorry - just had to vent.
 
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Vaporstang said:
I know this is redundant - but I get tired of all the fake/suspicious CRKs on a certain site. I don't know how many I have reported one to CRK, but I am sure they are spending a lot of time and resources (i.e., added costs to their fine products) to combat this. Arrrrrgh!!!!

Sorry - just had to vent.
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I hear ya and agree. In my free time I like to ask the sellers lots and lots of questions about these knives. I don't even read their responses but I reply with even more questions and at the end I ask they why the hell they are selling this with Chris Reeve's name attached. This usually sets their hair on fire due to me wasting their time. I consider it a hobby now, like looking for lefty crk.
 
For sure! :mad: Right now I'm looking at some being billed as real, but are fake. The ones that say they're fake are bad enough! :mad:
 
Even thought there are deals to be had (like we saw earlier!!!!) this is why I avoid that site.
 
My rant:

What I'd like to see is the Chinese makers move beyond this rediculous game of imitation. Let's face it, to make a fake Ti-lock or 25 is not an easy task, even with lesser materials and tolerances. It's a shame those efforts and talents are not put into building more quality domestic Chinese brands. No one scoffs at a Mcusta or Rockstead from Japan or a Shirogorov from Russia, and arguably the Taiwanese Spydercos are some of the best. The Chinese should step up, show some design confidence, and do something new and interesting. Lord knows they have the numbers and know-how to add to the world-wide knife community rather than leaching off it. They made Ming-vases after all. You gotta start somewhere, and it's about time this era of cheap knock-offs comes to a close. It's embarrassing.

I suppose if the Chinese stop cloning, some other country will pick up where they left off, but maybe not.
 
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I agree with what is be said but most of the CRK counterfeits are pretty obvious, at least to people who own one.

I am sure there is a huge market for people who would like to buy something very close to a CRK Sebenza to see what it is like and maybe impress people who don't know the finer details (just think of fake Rolex watches).

I have some of the Japanese Reate and Kizer knives and they are a great value for the money (IMHO). I am sure the Chinese could do something similar.
 
kidcongo said:
My rant:

What I'd like to see is the Chinese makers move beyond this rediculous game of imitation. Let's face it, to make a fake Ti-lock or 25 is not an easy task, even with lesser materials and tolerances. It's a shame those efforts and talents are not put into building more quality domestic Chinese brands. No one scoffs at a Mcusta or Rockstead from Japan or a Shirogorov from Russia, and arguably the Taiwanese Spydercos are some of the best. The Chinese should step up, show some design confidence, and do something new and interesting. Lord knows they have the numbers and know-how to add to the world-wide knife community rather than leaching off it. They made Ming-vases after all. You gotta start somewhere, and it's about time this era of cheap knock-offs comes to a close. It's embarrassing.

I suppose if the Chinese stop cloning, some other country will pick up where they left off, but maybe not.
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Well said; these cloners, or better said, thieves, have no imagination at all, I have yet to see a Chinese car hit the market and I hope it never happens, or maybe I'm wrong. I hate it that everything is being copied by these people, and they are taking our manufacturing jobs too. You're right Kid, I have two of those Mcusta knives and they are awesome, and I agree the Taiwan Spydercos are very well made, luckily with American Steel.

The Chinese have the technology for sure (which they probably stole from the US), just looking at Apple products proves the point; what really burns me, and that is just my personal thing, is that almost everything I see in stores, from clothing to toys, is being made in China (or Mexico sometimes); to top it off, and this is just over the top, I went to the store to buy some groceries, and I wanted some garlic to make some pasta sauce, well guess what, the garlic had a label that said "Made in China", I threw the thing back into the container, no pasta with Chinese garlic for me, sorry.

I am looking at a Starbenza 21 right now, it is sitting pretty on my laptop so I don't lose perspective; and I think 'man what a thing of beauty'; anyone copying the design and actually making it with the CRK logo is a thief in my book; sadly they have started to change the name of the knives to something else, like "HuanLo camping knife" or some crap like that; "with D2 steel", man what a joke, the design is still the same, so it is still a copy of a Sebenza; even if you dress a monkey in silk, it is still a monkey.

I really hope that our leaders will take back what everyone else in the world has taken from us, it is obvious our trade agreements suck big time, starting with NAFTA; but that is the topic for another rant. Yes, the whole thing is embarrassing.
Thanks for letting me share; CRK rocks!
 
kidcongo said:
My rant:

What I'd like to see is the Chinese makers move beyond this rediculous game of imitation. Let's face it, to make a fake Ti-lock or 25 is not an easy task, even with lesser materials and tolerances. It's a shame those efforts and talents are not put into building more quality domestic Chinese brands. No one scoffs at a Mcusta or Rockstead from Japan or a Shirogorov from Russia, and arguably the Taiwanese Spydercos are some of the best. The Chinese should step up, show some design confidence, and do something new and interesting. Lord knows they have the numbers and know-how to add to the world-wide knife community rather than leaching off it. They made Ming-vases after all. You gotta start somewhere, and it's about time this era of cheap knock-offs comes to a close. It's embarrassing.

I suppose if the Chinese stop cloning, some other country will pick up where they left off, but maybe not.
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I agree as well. It's obvious they have the skills and tooling required to turn out a decent product that would sell. Why put so much effort into cheating when you could just produce your own products. Do they really sell that many knock-offs that it's worth it? I guess I probably answered my own question as they wouldn't do it if it didn't pay. But I sincerely doubt the workes on the floor are the ones making the cash. A group way higher up the food chain I imagine is pocketing it.
 
tshoot said:
..........

I have some of the Japanese Reate and Kizer knives and they are a great value for the money (IMHO). I am sure the Chinese could do something similar.
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Reate and Kizer are chinese manufacturers, not japanese.

I think chinese manufacturers are catching up in terms of quality, fit & finish and so on. Todd Begg has his "steelcraft" series made by Reate, which is a chinese manufacturer and I am sure that Todd would not sell crap to his customers. So that's fine with me, as long as they do not steel existing designs, invented by other makers/manufacturers and as long as stand behind their country of origin and not trying to make people believe they are an US company, by just having a sales office in the US ....
 
I hear ya. I could easily spend a whole day myself just pointing out the various places where clones/fakes/counterfeits/knock-offs reside. I can only Imagine what CRK deals with. Back in the day, you used to see TONS of Buck 110 knock-offs. For knives that are truly game changers, its tough to stop. All we can do is just not buy them. But it needs to be a collective effort by Everyone and that is what will never happen because there are those that will still buy them just to "try". It will never end, all I can do is buy from CRK authorized dealers and CRK themselves. I will always do my part, will you....????? What bothers me the most is that these people sell them as the real deal and use the CRK name. This is where it gets ugly. But in countries where they continue to knock off items and have no laws against it, its near impossible to stop them from being made. But WE can stop them from being sold.....!!!
 
tshoot said:
I have some of the Japanese Reate and Kizer knives and they are a great value for the money (IMHO). I am sure the Chinese could do something similar.
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For clarification, may I ask what Reate and Kizer knives are made in Japan? Or do you mean made in China using Japanese steel like VG10?
 
It was my mistake, they are made in China. But, so far, they have been great knives, especially for the money. I do own over 10 Chris Reeve Sebenzas so I am certainly not a CRK hater. Love them. But, I love a bunch of different knives from Microtech, Benchmade, etc. I just love a well built knife that works for me functionally and doesn't break the bank.
 
Perhaps not relevant to the thread, but nobody has taken anything from us.
We've given it away.

We expect to be paid $40 an hour to drive a screw into a piece of metal, yet want to pay as little as possible for anything we buy.
The minimum wage worker can't afford to buy products manufactured by the $40/hour laborer, so they buy imported products that we could never make for close to the same price. The Catch-22 is our own fault.

If we want to bring our economy back within our borders, sacrifices will need to be made that NO ONE wants to make.
It's just like healthcare: for it to be affordable, either the providers, the pharmas, the insurance companies, or the doctors will have to take a pay cut.
None of them are willing to do that, which makes healthcare something only the wealthy can afford, which results in thing like the ACA.

Chinese knockoffs do not hurt Reeve. No one who would buy a genuine CRK would ever buy a knockoff. It just doesn't happen. 'Just like Rolex knockoffs; no one who could buy a real one would get a fake instead.
Where the knockoffs DO hurt business is in sales of fakes that are a good substitute for the real thing (Mickey Mouse t-shirt, anyone? how about a bit-perfect bootleg of of a DVD?) or sales of fakes that are represented AS the real thing. Those situations represent a real problem.

As for the Chinese making their own product since they have the technology, I've wondered the same.
I also wonder if some of the criminals I deal with couldn't be quite successful if they put as much energy into a legitimate business as they did into their illegal dealings.
Maybe it's up to one of us to come up with an awesome design, have the Chinese produce it at a reasonable cost, and sell it here.
As was said, if they can make a reasonable copy of a knife, ship it halfway around the world, and sell it for 1/30th the cost of the real thing, imagine what they could do with a legit product. Hell, they could probably make an EXACT copy of that CRK, sell it for $125 and make a tidy profit.
No one's fault but ours...
 
I've experienced Chinese quality control first hand in a multitude of different settings. Its really a crap shoot. there are not enough regulations and oversight, which is why things can be produced so cheap there. Even Chinese people prefer name brand products from other countries just for the quality. (ironically, a lot of the name brand stuff is produced in China haha)
 
When I grew up "made in japan" meant something was cheap. These days that is a mark of quality. We have seen a similar transition with Taiwanese products, with that becoming a mark of quality in many product realms. The chinese will sort themselves out in time I believe, and that is not something we should work to prevent from happening (as a resident of North America myself). As their quality, and the value of the home-grown chinese brands increases, it will serve to push their overall costs higher as a function of the perception of the article having value, and the trickle-down that tends to come from that. This may help even the playing field between countries, just as you don't buy a german knife, or a japanese knife thinking "must be made with cheap labour".

Perhaps the best thing we can do is to support a quality chinese maker (were one to present itself), whose success might lead to others following suit. If you can't beat em, (which we can't), you can only hope things get better for everyone over there, and supporting their higher end industry might help that.
 
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