Rat warden - Gen I and II?

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Mar 26, 2007
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Hi all,
Not sure if this came up anywhere else. Just wanted to note something I found interesting... it appears that the new Rat wardens being shipped out as part of the "Ratganza" pre-order are thinner than the originals that showed up at the store about 2 years ago.

I even tried putting the new one in a sheath that perfectly fits my original (Gen I) Rat warden and it was very loose. I don't have calipers so I haven't measured each but I lined them up and there is a noticeable difference.

I actually like the thinner version better :thumbup: ...but take note when ordering kydex if it's for a Gen I or Gen II.
 
Yes the new production is considerably thinner then the first generation of swamp wardens.
 
If someone with calipers and a good digital scale could post accurate thickness of both and accurate weights of both, I would like to update the Weights and Specs list.

I had a 1st Gen Rat Warden myself, but I didn't weigh it prior to selling it.

I have it listed at 2.2 ounces based on a post I found, but that is one of the weights I am skeptical about. That sounds a bit too light (???). So, I would like confirmation on both.
 
I weighed my Swamp Warden I got out of this last order and it was 2.2 ounces. Hopes this helps.
 
I weighed my Swamp Warden I got out of this last order and it was 2.2 ounces. Hopes this helps.


Based on the current info, Swamp Wardens shipped from this last batch of orders are the thinner ones at 0.15" thick and weigh 2.2 ounces. Thanks for re-confirming the weight.

The design is the same. But, the thickness is different between the 2007 release version at 0.1875 and the 2010 version at 0.15.

Officially, there has not been any name change. Even though they obviously have different thicknesses, technically, both the 2007 version and the 2010 version are still just both called Swamp Rat Wardens. Unfortunately, Jerry doesn't notify very well of certain changes to specs. :grumpy:

As per this thread, there are often problems for buyers when they receive a knife they assume to have the same specs and find out they are different. Sometimes buyers might like the changes, but sometimes the changes can be a problem. Kydex fitted to a certain blade could be a problem. Other problems could and do occure, but it depends. Personally, I think specs and changes in specs on a given design should still be shared with consumers.

I am still a little bummed about the considerable changes made to the scales on the final release of the Ratweiler. The original scales on the Ratweiler, Rat Mastiff and Rat Daddy were all of a consistant and nice design. Buyers including myself had no idea the handles were going to be changed. They just showed up that way and not nearly as nice for the same price. :thumbdn:

Unofficially, because of the change in thickness, we have started calling the thicker 2007 version Gen. I and the thinner 2010 version Gen II.

So, unofficially, we are referring to what you received out of this last shipment as Gen. II (or at least 2010 version).


Unfortunately, I am getting a "Range" of thicknesses posted on the Swamp Rat Wardens.

Currently we have:

Swamp Rat Warden 2007 = 2.6 ounces (est.); .185" - .1875" thick; 3.0” blade; 7.0” oal
Swamp Rat Warden 2010 = 2.2 ounces; .135" - .15" thick; 3.0” blade; 7.0” oal


The weight of the 2007 Gen. I Swamp Rat Warden has not been confirmed. Currently, it is just an estimate (as noted). The estimate is probably close enough - especially considering the range of thicknesses posted. (.185" is about 30% thicker than .14", most of the weight of the Warden is in the handle which is full thickness. 30% more than 2.2 ounces could be as much as 2.8 ounces or so, but I shot a little lower for weight reduction in the grind (????) - it is just an estimate still. But, if we could get confirmation of the weight on the 2007 Rat Warden, that would be nice. :thumbup:

However, you are the 3rd to post 2.2 ounces on the 2010 Warden (that I have found). So, we have 100% agreement on the weight of the 2010 version out of 3. At least that is consistant. But, that sort of begs the question about the range of thicknesses posted (???).

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I think the differences in your thickness measurements within the generations could be due to the coating thickness. I know the Moss is probably quite a bit thicker than the Sage for instance.
 
I just weighed my 2010 Swamp Rat Warden that has the coating stripped off at 2.3 oz.

Unfortunately I didn't weigh it with the coating.

This in on a digital scale that has been calibrated.
 
I think the differences in your thickness measurements within the generations could be due to the coating thickness. I know the Moss is probably quite a bit thicker than the Sage for instance.


It seems "possible" - if just comparing the differences - as you mentioned "within the generations". The biggest difference within a generation is 0.15" - .135" = difference of 0.015" or slightly less than 1/64" (0.015625").

Considering the coating is on "Two" sides, the thickness of the coating could vary as much as 0.0075" on each side.

That sounds small - and it is...., but consider: "Factory paint thickness on cars" is typically about 4 - 6 Mils with the occassional 7 - 8 mils being "Thick" OEM paint. 1 Mil = 1000th of an inch or .001.
So, a "full" thickness of factory car paint then is typically (on average) around .006" thick.

So, the "Variance" from one coating thickness to another coating thickness would be about equal to the entire thickness of the "Thickest" factory car paint..... which I guess is possible (????) considering the Busse coatings can be fairly thick.

Although, I would seriously doubt the coatings could account for the differences between the 2007 vs. 2010 thickness numbers.

I guess then maybe you have your thick blade gunk... I mean coatings ;) and your Extra Thick blade coatings. :confused:

DARN COATINGS!!! :grumpy: :barf: ......... ;)

Lets make all future knives in SATIN so we don't have ALL THESE Problems. :thumbup: :D

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I just weighed my 2010 Swamp Rat Warden that has the coating stripped off at 2.3 oz.

Unfortunately I didn't weigh it with the coating.

This in on a digital scale that has been calibrated.


Had to throw some more sand in the Vaseline eh?


I can't "knowledgeably" account for all the variances on the Rat Wardens.

All I can do is throw out theories and speculation.

Further, it is a knife that I had one of from 2007, but I sold without measuring or weighing. I have weighed and measured most myself. I just didn't think to on that one. So, I have to take info from others and ask for accuracy and interpret accuracy as best I can.

Maybe the Rat Wardens are just cut out of various "Scrap" SR-101 remnants and the scrap remnants have varying thickness. :confused:

For now, I have 3 reports of the 2010 Rat Warden at 2.2 ounces. I assume from what I can tell, those weights were provided including coatings.

Right now, 2.3 ounces without the coating is the anomoly. The coating probably only weighs about 0.05 ounce or so - maybe 0.1 ounce at most. If you sanded yours to satin and removed any significant amount of steel as well, then yours appears to be even more of an anomoly. :confused:
**** Maybe yours was a "Left-Over" from 2007 (?????).

I don't have much problem with a 0.1 ounce variance for the chart. I am a stickler for details and accuracy. But, these knives are just going to have some variances. I "Expect" variances on many of the knives. Some of the larger knives can easily have variances of up to an ounce or two - especially if they have different handle materials. G10 commonly weighs an ounce or so more than micarta on "average" sized handles. I have tried to notate the chart with certain common variances such as G10 vs. micarta, specified thickness that defined a given release: .25" thick FSH vs. .27" FSH and such, or different grinds such as full height flat vs. saber.

Keeping track of all of the Busse variances is a bit tricky. ;)

Honestly, I didn't really expect so many variances on the small skelly knives since they don't have handles. But, it is what it is. There are some differences on the Rat Wardens in thickness and weight. The thickness from some is apparently going to be noticeable. The weight differences are not going to be that big a deal to most. Most people are not going to be terribly concerned about 1/2 ounce, let alone 1/10th ounce. ;)
Although, I have tried to be as accurate down to 5/100th ounce as that is the extent of the accuracy of my personal scale.

For now, I still just have an estimate on the weight for the thicker 2007 version.

**** I guess we might have to keep in mind the "possibility" that some of the knives shipped in 2010 were left-over from 2007.
There does not seem to be any notation differentiating the two. And Busse is known to keep some "Left-Overs" around for various shows. So, that is my best guess. :confused:

I don't have a much better explanation.

The chart for weights and specs was only intended to be a reference guide and I think it still serves its purpose with its numbers being provided as accurately as possible and with the existing disclaimer posted at the top that some variances will and do occur.

It is what it is.

Let's Drink! :thumbup: ;)

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