Rats: Clever but Frustrating.

[coote]

My parents have had their current home for maybe fifty years. My dad died about 12 years ago, and one thing he never solved was the problem of rats getting into his ceiling.

Their house is plastered with concrete and is mostly surrounding by concrete paving. We have never observed tunnels under the paths, and rats have never been found inside the house itself. We've cut away trees from near the house, and we've covered the ends of the drainpipes with wire mesh.

I've also set up a game camera in the hope of getting some clues, but have had no success so far.

After doing research, I now believe that the rats are actually climbing up the plaster walls, and then navigating under the relatively wide eaves by somehow hanging on to the plastic downpipes that connect to the guttering. A rat climbing over the guttering is something I'd like to witness, but I think that is what must be happening.

We continue to catch rats in the ceiling. A while back I broke my own rule of not laying poison in the house because of the bad odors we'd experience with the dead rats. I found some chewed wiring, so I went and got a bucket of poison and flung it around in the roofspace. I'm sure the problem has been reduced for now, but it is something that will require vigilance.

My own home is located in a semi rural area where there is a small stream and a lot of wild vegetation. Recently rats have been getting into one of my compost bins. This not only makes a mess as they spread stuff around, but it also makes my wife reluctant to use the compost bins. Furthermore, the smell of the rats can drive our dog crazy at times and she tramples the garden trying to find rats. A while back she totally wrecked a square plastic compost bin by breaking it apart with her jaws in an effort to get the rats.

I am reluctant to use poison. Standard rat traps have not been successful. Even when I've placed one in the compost bin surrounded by other food, the trap has been avoided and the bait untouched. I've caught one under a figure four deadfall, but I now have video footage of rats avoiding going under my deadfall traps. But what I have had some success with are snares.

I make the snares from fine wire cable that we've used in the past to make necklaces for the glass jewellery that we produce. I rig the snares so that when the rat gets caught, it gets lifted into the air. I think snared rats have to be lifted by a spring mechanism or they will be able to chew through the cable. I had this happen to me once... it isn't surprising when I consider that I've seen stronger wire fishing traces bitten in half by large fish.

I caught another big rat last night. It measured about 17 inches from the nose to the tip of the tail. I think that these are what some folks call 'Norway' rats. Oddly, I am quite fond of these little critters... but because they are so messy and destructive I have to deal with them.

 

[TBL]

Death to them all brother!

I had a rat chew the wiring on my motorcycle a few years ago. Ended up costing me around $300 to get all the parts they chewed replaced. The only reason I even knew they were around was a turkey leg bone caught in my suspension as they were trying to bring it into their nest in the bike.

 

[mbay1455]

Well done Coote, those buggers are so destructive whenever/wherever they are near people. Hadn't thought of snares for the bastards. I also live semi rural on a couple acres with fields, creek, trees and numerous compost piles in the area. One not quite that size (but nearly) took up residence on my back covered patio a couple weeks back. I set out traps and he avoided them completely for days. Today, he made the mistake of scurrying up behind a hutch next to the brick. Only about 2" of gap between hutch and brick but he felt safe from me squeezed in there. I grabbed an old bb gun and slowly slid it in right next to his not so cute head and pulled the trigger. Didn't kill him but dazed him enough that he didn't hang on to the wall and I was able to get at him and finish him off.

Sorry everyone else for no Becker content. But the only good rat is a one laying on his back with all four feet stuck in the air.

 

[Don W]

I have many rats on our property. I have been able to keep them out of our attic, by regularly checking and securing soffits under our eaves. I only shoot ones that are out and about during the day. That usually occurs as my mango tree readies for picking. Hawks and coyotes also help keep the population in check. Good use on the wire snares, much better choice than poison.

 

[Bladite]

stainless steel woof stuffed into all the cracks, jammed in hard from the outside, and anywhere they can get it, and use some kind of sealant (non expanding foam, and close it all up. not only good weatherproofing, but semi-structural with the wire. hopefully that should slow the rats wayyyyyyyy down.

if you have to, something very smooth and wide around the top of the outside walls, like aluminum. such they can't climb it. do it right, can be decorative

 

[granitestateofmind]

Hah! Remind me again why you'd like squirrels in NZ? Tree rats....an appropriate nickname. Imagine rats with the balance of a Wallenda, the climbing ability of Peter Parker and the fearlessness of Alex Honnold.....
I've seen one or two big rats here....but they aren't usually that kind of nuisance here in NH. Squirrels, mice....between the two of them I've lost insulation, siding, exterior trim, a gas powered string trimmer (squirrels gnawed a hole in the gas tank) part of the lawn tractor bags, a leaf blower, part of my pool filter.....probably a few thousand dollars worth of stuff over the years. The Rodent Horde is unstoppable. Luckily, they don't go for eating human beans, or we'd be in trouble. Actually, in our part of the world, I'd bet beavers cause more property damage than rats. They are some damn big rodents, too - 2nd largest rodents in the world. Luckily they usually only damage real estate.
Nice catch there, coote. Not much meat on him, tho....

 

[zzyzzogeton]

Coote - you are right about them using the gutter system, but they don't even need to think about using your exterior plaster wall to get up the side of the house to the gutters - I've seen rats and squirrels climb into and straight up the INSIDE of a gutter downspout, crawl out of the gutter and start cavorting around the roofs of my shop, the main house, the garage apartment, etc. I've also seen rats and squirrels leap as far as 15 feet from a tree limb to a roof. Sometimes, the little bastards will crawl up power poles, crawl along the power lines and then leap of the wires to the roof and start their shenanigans.


I've lost house/shop/garage/out building wiring to both sets of varmints. We've had all types of wiring damage to vehicles, including the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of my Prius. They've chewed up and/or destroyed 100 year old patch work quilts, other family keepsake items, leather knife sheaths, a couple of saddles, and more. They will get into almost any known storage device to chomp on dog food, cattle feed, hog corn, deer corn, field seed kept for future years, etc. I have to used plastic tubs/storage containers, etc to keep the rats, mice and squirrels out of such edibles.

Raccoons??? That's a whole other tale - they've torn holes in the roof of my house, my parent's house, torn up insulation in the attic making their nests, stripped the peaches, figs, pears, plums. apricots off the trees before the fruit is ripe - they will come in the dark of the night, crawl up in the trees and start "sampling" - they'll take one bite out of a fruit, decide it's not ripe, throw it on the ground and try another, and another...... I've gone out in the morning to find 50 or 60 "one-bite fruits" lying on the ground. The little bastard will get in the watermelons and cantalopes. Then they'll scratch/chew a hole in one end and start scooping the meat out - leaving a perfectly good looking melon shell behind - making one to believe they still have a melon crop. They are too smart to trap with regularity - catch one and it's like they have telepathy or the Vulcan mind-meld thing going on - you'll never catch another in the same place with the same trap - even if you scrub the damn trap with hot, soapy water, rinse it with vinegar and/or bleach and let it air out for a month. There's a reason I have 9 traps I set out. I've caught 25+ skunks in the same trap in the same place over the last 18 months and never washed the thing except when God rains on it. But raccoons????? Not those sneaky bastards. I've even had raccoons figure out how unlatch/open tubs and cabinets. I literally put padlocks on storage shed doors to keep the raccoons out.


Did I mention that I HATE raccoons?

 

[Scott321]

Good luck with your snares. Glad to see there's a glimmer of hope. I used to date a woman in Austria who had one like that for a pet when she was younger. Some of her girl friends too.

Stay vigilant. A friend of mine was having Thanksgiving dinner with his wife and daughter when the fire alarm went off. The entire house burnt down, and the firefighters traced it to a squirrel who chewed through some wiring, completed a circuit, and caught fire inside the walls. Luckily no one got hurt, but they lost a lot in the fire.

 

[NixKustoms]

Damn!!

 

[coote]

Thanks for the comments.

I can feel the passion you guys have for this subject. We're bigger than them and are better resourced. We kill them but they keep on coming

Here is a quick video I spliced together showing some game camera footage of the rats in our garden:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiLzR_oTd-8

 

[Snakebreaker]

Awesome snares coote! Great job. I love making various snares.

 

[Bobber]

I for one condone the term "Norway" rats...
I'm the a Norwegian, but I'm deffinetly not a rat.....
😂 😁

 

[beckerbrain]

Those snares are awesome, and seem like they'd be more fun, but I've had a large rat problem here in Florida too. My solution was muskrat traps, especially given the size of your rats. It was a dirty job to clean up for the first couple of weeks, but I swear they either learned to avoid our attic, or we simply killed them all. These traps are cheap (I bought 5 of them on amazon for around 40$ USD) and they are super effective. If your problem continues, you should really check these out, they are quick, clean, easy, and brutally effective:

Plus, they might be useful for trapping small game depending on your area, it's an instant spinal dispatch when the plate is baited.

 

[tanglediver]

I for one condone the term "Norway" rats...
I'm the a Norwegian, but I'm deffinetly not a rat.....
😂 😁

I can see how that might be a bit, ... funny/sensitive.
-
That's one, big, brown rat, Coote!!
-
My favorite rat story involved a certain sheet of plastic over a shed roof frame I had been working on. I stepped out one afternoon and saw a rat sauntering around the rafters, then it made a fatal mistake by stepping off the rafter and onto the white plastic. I had lots of lumber lying around, so I grabbed a 2x4 and called the dog to "Get the RAT!"
I laid into that rodent swinging for the fence and set the dog to field the play. After the rat landed, she was all over that rodent. Four or five chomps and that rat was done. Sucker must have flown 10 or 12 feet in the air.

 

[Bufford]

If you think they are climbing the walls, then place traps with the bait facing the wall around the entire perimeter of the house. Check them daily and rebait as required. Get a couple of cats, but remove the poison if you do.

 

[Ethan Becker]

At one of the gatherings our good friend Gutsy shared a trick he uses to keep brother bear from camp.... He always leaves liquid sign around the perimeter of camp...... Personally I have been leaving p-mail for the raccoons and possums that used to bedevil my trash cans..... It has worked for me for years now...... Purely anecdotal, mind but, The Bears have not et Gutsy and I live with freaking hordes of raccoons wth no problems...

E

 

[Bladite]

somewhere a long time ago i read about a guy that solved animal problems with his trashcans, dogs in particular, by booby trapping them with a large bag of acetylene iirc.

he devise some flashy trigger thing so when the barrel was knocked over, spark, and boom

apparently he didn't calculate (guess) very well on HOW MUCH TO USE, as the resulting bang turned two plastic trash cans into a lot of triscuit sized pieces all over the place. the dogs ran off and were never seen again

 

[coote]

Ooh! P-mail !! I've never heard that before, but I will be looking for opportunities to drop it into future conversations. Thanks for sharing. I hope you haven't copyrighted the term. I dunno if I'm bold enough to suggest to my 85 year old mother that she should start peeing around the outside of her house, but if she is desperate enough she might try it.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

The name 'Norway rat' is evidently not very accurate. I think I read somewhere that in Britain these rats were given the name because it was believed they came ashore from Norwegian ships. However it is now believed by some that there were no rats like this in Norway before they were found in Britain. If it is any consolation Bobber, I think these rats are a particularly attractive and intelligent variety.

That rat made a tactical error when it made itself visible by moving over the plastic. The dog would have thought you were a really good guy initiating that bit of entertainment. As a teenager I went on holiday with my family to a place that was infested with rodents. There'd be poop all over the place. Sometimes sitting by the fire in the evenings we'd see a mouse venture into the open. We'd jump into action grabbing whatever weapon was at hand. A favourite rodent club was the old hearth brush that sat by the fireplace.

Yep, the more traps the better. One by every stormwater downpipe around the house would be ideal. Our traps have to be covered with wooden or plastic tunnels to avoid by-catch problems. Those muskrat traps look like they'd be perfect. We don't have a lot of traps to choose from down here, but some steel jaw traps are legal for certain jobs if set in the right place. Steel leg traps are used for possums down here, and they catch their share of rats if the pan can be set lightly enough. We also have the Fenn Mk4 trap which is often used for rats and stoats.

Here's what we'd call a possum trap. There are different syles and brands, but I haven't seen any markings on this one:

And here is my new Fenn. It is currently set in the garden covered with a sprinkling of rotting pine needles. The whole set is covered by a safety tunnel. I have seen game camera images of mice going under the tunnel, but none of the rats that I've observed have done anything more than sniff the outside of the tunnel. I'm thinking that when the rats move into a compost bin next time, I will make a 'dirt set' in the bin itself. This should be safe enough as the bin has a clip-on lid.

Ah... acetylene. I worked in a trade that used a lot of this gas. I've played around with it a bit, but I haven't done anything too remarkable using it. A couple of years ago, I heard a noteworthy story about a rather irresponsible acetylene prank. Evidently some guy was deemed worthy of having a joke played on him. A container was filled with an explosive mix of acetylene (and oxygen or air), and hidden in his vehicle. An ignition device was wired into the brake light circuit. The guy drove off and eventually put his foot on the brake pedal. There was a loud explosion.... and the german shepherd dog travelling with him sunk its teeth deep into his forearm.

And now that I've wandered far away from discussing Beckers, here is another anecdote from the same guy that told me about the acetylene. I may not be retelling this accurately, but you'll get the idea. Although the story could be considered humorous if it were fiction, it is more remarkable for other reasons. Stupidity, perhaps. This guy worked for the local government that ran a landfill site. Evidently one of the workers got splashed by another worker driving through a puddle right next to him. His workmates told him that he should get his revenge. When the splashed guy was not on site, a huge puddle was created by digging a wide, deep trench. It was filled with muddy water and nobody could tell how deep it was. One day the guy that did the initial splashing was located near the new puddle. The guy seeking revenge was urged to take one of the company pick-up trucks to deliver some watery payback. The guy revved up the truck and sped into the puddle. The truck nose-dived and the engine was torn from its mounts. The driver got broken ribs. This all happened quite a long time ago. I think the vehicle was just fixed up and there were no serious repercussions. If it had happened in the last few years, it would have been a very big deal.

 

[beckerbrain]

Ooh! P-mail !! I've never heard that before, but I will be looking for opportunities to drop it into future conversations. Thanks for sharing. I hope you haven't copyrighted the term. I dunno if I'm bold enough to suggest to my 85 year old mother that she should start peeing around the outside of her house, but if she is desperate enough she might try it.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

The name 'Norway rat' is evidently not very accurate. I think I read somewhere that in Britain these rats were given the name because it was believed they came ashore from Norwegian ships. However it is now believed by some that there were no rats like this in Norway before they were found in Britain. If it is any consolation Bobber, I think these rats are a particularly attractive and intelligent variety.

That rat made a tactical error when it made itself visible by moving over the plastic. The dog would have thought you were a really good guy initiating that bit of entertainment. As a teenager I went on holiday with my family to a place that was infested with rodents. There'd be poop all over the place. Sometimes sitting by the fire in the evenings we'd see a mouse venture into the open. We'd jump into action grabbing whatever weapon was at hand. A favourite rodent club was the old hearth brush that sat by the fireplace.

Yep, the more traps the better. One by every stormwater downpipe around the house would be ideal. Our traps have to be covered with wooden or plastic tunnels to avoid by-catch problems. Those muskrat traps look like they'd be perfect. We don't have a lot of traps to choose from down here, but some steel jaw traps are legal for certain jobs if set in the right place. Steel leg traps are used for possums down here, and they catch their share of rats if the pan can be set lightly enough. We also have the Fenn Mk4 trap which is often used for rats and stoats.

Here's what we'd call a possum trap. There are different syles and brands, but I haven't seen any markings on this one:

And here is my new Fenn. It is currently set in the garden covered with a sprinkling of rotting pine needles. The whole set is covered by a safety tunnel. I have seen game camera images of mice going under the tunnel, but none of the rats that I've observed have done anything more than sniff the outside of the tunnel. I'm thinking that when the rats move into a compost bin next time, I will make a 'dirt set' in the bin itself. This should be safe enough as the bin has a clip-on lid.

Ah... acetylene. I worked in a trade that used a lot of this gas. I've played around with it a bit, but I haven't done anything too remarkable using it. A couple of years ago, I heard a noteworthy story about a rather irresponsible acetylene prank. Evidently some guy was deemed worthy of having a joke played on him. A container was filled with an explosive mix of acetylene (and oxygen or air), and hidden in his vehicle. An ignition device was wired into the brake light circuit. The guy drove off and eventually put his foot on the brake pedal. There was a loud explosion.... and the german shepherd dog travelling with him sunk its teeth deep into his forearm.

And now that I've wandered far away from discussing Beckers, here is another anecdote from the same guy that told me about the acetylene. I may not be retelling this accurately, but you'll get the idea. Although the story could be considered humorous if it were fiction, it is more remarkable for other reasons. Stupidity, perhaps. This guy worked for the local government that ran a landfill site. Evidently one of the workers got splashed by another worker driving through a puddle right next to him. His workmates told him that he should get his revenge. When the splashed guy was not on site, a huge puddle was created by digging a wide, deep trench. It was filled with muddy water and nobody could tell how deep it was. One day the guy that did the initial splashing was located near the new puddle. The guy seeking revenge was urged to take one of the company pick-up trucks to deliver some watery payback. The guy revved up the truck and sped into the puddle. The truck nose-dived and the engine was torn from its mounts. The driver got broken ribs. This all happened quite a long time ago. I think the vehicle was just fixed up and there were no serious repercussions. If it had happened in the last few years, it would have been a very big deal.

those muskrat traps are serious business brother. I have no experience trapping, I only used them for pest control, but I can say that your idea of the safety tunnels is smart, and would be a must. We used them in an attic space, so that concern didn't even occur to me, but these things are no joke, you definitely don't want a stray dog or cat sticking his nose in there. they'll snap a Georgia roof rats neck like a toothpick. Maybe you could set them inside a bucket, with a hole in the lid just big enough for the rat to squeeze into? You could even have the chain tether attached to the inside of the bucket, so the dead critter is enclosed inside and you can just haul them off and dump them wherever. It would me mobile and without the fuss of building the tunnels or the worry of accidental trappings. Just an idea, that's how I would do them here I FL if I had to use them again. Whereabouts in NZ are you located? I spent a couple weeks camping in Coramandel and it was incredible, I absolutely love NZ and the kindhearted kiwis of the north island.

 

[coote]

A bucket would be a good way of making one of those traps safer.

Down here a lot of trapping is done for rats, stoats, weasels and ferrets. They are all introduced species and we're told that they are harming our native species. Going for a walk in national parks and many other places you are very likely to see wooden boxes containing traps. Often the boxes will have wire mesh over the ends so that animals can see through the tunnel... and so that operators can check the traps. Often the lids will be screwed on the boxes. This helps to make them safer for children. The boxes generally have very small entrances, and there has to be enough distance between the entrance and the trap so that our flightless birds cant reach the trap with their beak and neck stretched right out.

Sometimes these traps-in-a-box are baited with a whole egg. I've heard that hikers have sometimes stolen the eggs from the traps for their own use. They'd have to be pretty hungry to eat an egg of an unknown age.

According to the powers that be, some traditional traps like the Fenn are not deemed humane enough (although they have been used effectively for many years)... so now there are some heavy duty devices being used that would really smash your fingers. Here is a picture of a rat in a DOC 200 trap (Department Of Conservation 200 mm wide jaws). This trap would normally have a box cover screwed down to the baseboard.

I'm pleased you enjoyed your New Zealand experience. I've driven past Coromandel, but I've never explored it. I'm not from the North Island. I'm one of the mean dudes from near Nelson City at the northern end of the South Island.