Ray skin source?

A.McPherson

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
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Hey ladies and gents,

Anyone have a good line on ray skin? Especially in various colors?
Thanks!
 
Springfield leather company. Located in Springfield MO
I'm not seeing any on their web site though. I've bought from their store in the past.
 
If looking for colored handle strips for tsukamaki, eBay has tsuka samegawa at reasonable prices. They also often have dyed soft-tanned hides that work for other uses.
Amazon has whole raw samegawa hides and tanned hides.
 
Sharkskin is from a cowtail stingray, which are not sharks. It is not from the makos and such we think of when we hear "shark". The proper name is samegawa さめがわ. That translates as "shark" (サメ)"side" (がわ)", meaning "side of the shark". In English we say sharkskin thus causing the species confusion.
 
Hopefully going on a basket hilted broadsword to match the Targe? If so wire wrapped sharkskin works great too.
Alas, that's a bit far outside my skills to attempt right now. The ray skin is for a tanto that I started a while back for a friend's son who is in the S. Korean Army.
It's a traditional shaped tanto, but way thicker with a hallow grind, pretty extreme distal taper and a tapered full tang.
His father is half Japanese, so I figured I'd try to make it reflect that heritage a bit, but with some modern elements too, trying to reflect his Korean side.
It's definitely a soldiers knife, not so much a fighting knife but more of a working knife. 'cause I know the kind of BS that an enlisted soldier does to his knives! I was one for 11 years, and I did some dumb stuff with the knives I carried while I was in!
 
Sharkskin is from a cowtail stingray, which are not sharks. It is not from the makos and such we think of when we hear "shark". The proper name is samegawa さめがわ. That translates as "shark" (サメ)"side" (がわ)", meaning "side of the shark". In English we say sharkskin thus causing the species confusion.
Didn't know that!
 
Sharkskin is from a cowtail stingray, which are not sharks. It is not from the makos and such we think of when we hear "shark". The proper name is samegawa さめがわ. That translates as "shark" (サメ)"side" (がわ)", meaning "side of the shark". In English we say sharkskin thus causing the species confusion.
That is interesting? Is it the same for western swords? Shagrin(sp?) aka shark skin has been used for a long time on military sabers in England and other countries...
 
As far as I know all shagrin/shagreen is rayskin today. In the western world many years ago it was from rays, sharks, or dogfish - whichever was available. With protections and such today, rays, mostly cowrays, are the primary source. True sharkskin is finer grained and thinner than rayskin. Rayskin is also much more durable. I don't know of any suppliers who sell true shark skin shagrin. Maybe someone here will have a supplier.

Samegawa, AKA sharkskin, is the dried rawhide skin removed from cowrays, which are caught for their meat. It is covered with hard calcium nodules that protect the ray. The large bump in the middle of the hide is called the parent grain or oyatsuba, and referred to as the Emperor's node. It is the from middle of the backbone. The larger the oyatsuba, the more expensive the hide. This section is the most prized, as there is only one on each hide. It is saved for the best handles n the best swords. Dried samegawa is really hard. You won't cut it with a knife or scissors. A bandsaw with a metal blade does quite well. For trimming the seam along the ura once wrapped and dried on the tsuka, use a fine tooth rotary sawblade in a Dremel. A 1/2" to 3/4" round blade is best.

Traditionally, one entire hide was used for the tsuka. The dried rawhide was soaked until pliable, trimmed to the approximate needed size, wrapped around the wooden tsuka core, bound tightly with twine, and allowed to dry for about a week. The oyatsuba is always placed in the center of the omote (show) side. Once dry, the hide was trimmed to meet perfectly along the ura (backside) of the tsuka. After assuring a perfect fit, it was glued on with rice glue, bound with twine again, and allowed to fully dry. Some of these tsuka have lasted hundreds of years and are still holding tight.
The rest of the hide was used for saya covering or the grip area near the koiguchi, and decorative other things.

When wartime came, the supply of samegawa was not sufficient to wrap one per handle, so the hide was cut into strips called panels. A panel was glued on each side. This allowed many tsuka to be made from one hide. The most valuable one had the oyatsuba, and was saved for an officer. The difference in cost of a panel with the node vs a plain one can be triple or more.
While samegawa is the preferred wrap for a Japanese sword, many other skins and leathers have been used on sword handles. I have used elephant rawhide as the wrap on a tsuka. It looks like fine grain grey samegawa. It is dang near as hard, too.

If you want the samegawa to be other than white, it can be lacquered with a good grade hard lacquer. Urishi is the preferred type, but expensive and many people are allergic to it. Furniture grade lacquer works fine. The lacquer is usually lightly sanded after drying to expose white dots on the raised areas and the color in the recesses. After sanding, hand buff and wax and tsuka to get a good polish.

The soft rayskin that is available in many colors has been vegetable tanned and sanded to be thin and pliable. It is used for wallets, belts, and insert pieces on sheaths by leathercrafters, and sometimes for clothing like vests. It isn't the traditional material for wrapping a tsuka, but certainly can be used. It is generally from smaller rays of many species. Many of these soft skins have a fake oyatsuba glued in the center.

Fun trivia fact for sword nerds:
The rays that make samegawa are not found in any quantity around Japan. The old tsukaishi had to import it from China and India.
 
This is the second custom pair of boots I've had with sharkskin heel counters, the protective layer over the heel. Very abrasion resistant. They just don't wear out from the up and down movement of the heel band of the spur.

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This is different stuff than on a sword handle though. Some custom boots are sharkskin all the way around but the stuff doesn't breath well. But they are bullet proof.

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Calfskin tops and bull hide foot.

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Damn! Nice boots right there!:oops:

Thanks! We’d had a really nice show at a big roping. Ozuna Boots had the space across the aisle from us. It was a good enough show that I went across and got measured and ordered these guys up. He didn’t get them right the first time size wise so he built me a new pair and added the shark and the 10 rows of stitching on the tops for taking longer than promised. He didn’t even send me the first pair, he called on the phone and said they were wrong and he was starting over. 5 rows of stitching were standard if I remember right. Anyhoo I used em pretty well for 3 or 4 years and then traded them off. Wasn’t anything wrong with them either size or quality, just my years of walking around on a 2 1/4”, underslung, true riding heel are over.
 
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