Razel SS3 Folder Mid tech- Acceptable?

L

Luis G.

Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Messages
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Just received my Graham Brothers Razel SS3 GMT (Mid tech) knife in the mail today. I was excited to see the knife for sale as a folder because the fixed blade razel had always intrigued me with it's blade shape.

However I had a few issues:
1. Fit is decent but the finishing is really leaving something to be desired. Many scratches from milling/mfger be seen all over the knife from scale to knife etc. Stone wash does not do a great job of hiding it.
2. Pocket Clip honestly looks like someone grabbed some titanium and dremeled it into shape. No finishing went into it.
3. Will not center properly. It looks as if either the blade was ground crooked, or the bearings are not sitting straight (maybe the frames werent milled right)
4. Sticky lock. (may wear in not sure I can always send it for carbidizing).

I packed it up and made a listing for it. I've been fighting over whether or not to keep it. Did some light cutting and found the blade shape to be pretty good but wonder if it's worth keeping.

What do you guys think? I think I won't sell it for much over retail if I decide to do that.
 
Luis G. said:
Just received my Graham Brothers Razel SS3 GMT (Mid tech) knife in the mail today. I was excited to see the knife for sale as a folder because the fixed blade razel had always intrigued me with it's blade shape.

However I had a few issues:
1. Fit is decent but the finishing is really leaving something to be desired. Many scratches from milling/mfger be seen all over the knife from scale to knife etc. Stone wash does not do a great job of hiding it.
2. Pocket Clip honestly looks like someone grabbed some titanium and dremeled it into shape. No finishing went into it.
3. Will not center properly. It looks as if either the blade was ground crooked, or the bearings are not sitting straight (maybe the frames werent milled right)
4. Sticky lock. (may wear in not sure I can always send it for carbidizing).

I packed it up and made a listing for it. I've been fighting over whether or not to keep it. Did some light cutting and found the blade shape to be pretty good but wonder if it's worth keeping.

What do you guys think? I think I won't sell it for much over retail if I decide to do that.
Click to expand...

My thoughts are that I hope you take exceptionally clear pictures and post these issues up in your sale thread.
 
Personally, mid-tech's shouldn't have an off center blade period. Secondly, rough machine marks shouldn't be there either. Of course, without pictures it's really hard to tell what is going on. I have several mid-tech's and they all have flawless fit and finish. The difference in my experience between a mid-tech and full custom is in the materials, the fancy details and the level of finish on the blade.
 
Quiet said:
My thoughts are that I hope you take exceptionally clear pictures and post these issues up in your sale thread.
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As always, I describe things to the best of my abilities. However it appears these knives have a few common issues from what I've been able to see: Pocket clips are rough. Sticky locks. And non perfect centering.

stereo.pete said:
Personally, mid-tech's shouldn't have an off center blade period. Secondly, rough machine marks shouldn't be there either. Of course, without pictures it's really hard to tell what is going on. I have several mid-tech's and they all have flawless fit and finish. The difference in my experience between a mid-tech and full custom is in the materials, the fancy details and the level of finish on the blade.
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yeah that's what I thought too but I guess some makers arent really caring too much sine it's a "mid tech" line. Shame really I expected more from Graham.
 
Have you tried contacting them to see if they're amenable to correcting the issues you've seen in your knife?
 
Luis G. said:
I haven't but for sure he knows of the pocket clips/sticky lock (came sharpied).
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Well, lock stick is a known issue on finely made, close-tolerance titanium knives, to my understanding. However, the blade issues you describe are unacceptable at the price point you no doubt paid.
 
Quiet said:
Well, lock stick is a known issue on finely made, close-tolerance titanium knives, to my understanding. However, the blade issues you describe are unacceptable at the price point you no doubt paid.
Click to expand...

Not sure where u heard that but sticky lock is the exact opposite of that. Sticky lock happens because the surfaces in the lockbar and or tang are not perfectly even and have high spots. This is why sometimes wearing it in will get rid of it. Othertimes it doesnt matter because it's too messed up.

Meh all I gotta is I feel ashamed to have listed this for anything above $500, it's NOT worth it.
Ima relist it when I can for a much better price.

Edit: Took a while but I got some pictures to show what I am talking about.
Uploading now.
 
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Luis G. said:
Not sure where u heard that but sticky lock is the exact opposite of that. Sticky lock happens because the surfaces in the lockbar and or tang are not perfectly even and have high spots. This is why sometimes wearing it in will get rid of it. Othertimes it doesnt matter because it's too messed up.

Meh all I gotta is I feel ashamed to have listed this for anything above $500, it's NOT worth it.
Ima relist it when I can for a much better price.

Edit: Took a while but I got some pictures to show what I am talking about.
Uploading now.
Click to expand...

I could be misunderstanding the issue, or using incorrect terminology, certainly not the first time it's happened! I'll await the pics.
 
Wow flickr is awesome. Automatically fixed orientation.

In any case I got the pics uploaded going to go one by one and explain whats going on:

Pocket clip: unfinished, and poorly shaped (again looks like a dremel job imho).
20140627_211200 by crazysur123, on Flickr

Notice the lack of crisp lines, it's completely wavy:
20140627_211147 by crazysur123, on Flickr

Milling marks, these are from a mill (probably CNC).
20140627_211131 by crazysur123, on Flickr

Scratch marks from mfger or milling or both. At first I honestly guessed maybe it was from surface grinding, but then I realized precision surface grinding should be done vertically or horizontally to get the whole scale in one shot versus stage by stage.
20140627_210944 by crazysur123, on Flickr

Macro's Same as above: marks from mfger or milling or both.
20140627_211048 by crazysur123, on Flickr

Normally off centering due to pivot adjustments or pinched washers or what not should be obvious in the way the blade favors one side, the side that is favored should show more spacing near the pivot, and decreasing spacing near the tip. However if you see this picture you can see how the side that is favor shows a fairly even spacing through out which is why I suspect an off ground blade, or bearing pockets.
20140627_141610 by crazysur123, on Flickr

Edit:
To be fair this isn't exactly a representation of Graham's work. Apparently these are made by Chad Nichols (fantastics damascus maker). The only thing Graham does is put the final edge on the knife, which I will say it is the best hand ground edge I've seen it is also sharp, and very polished.

Edit #2:
To be honest let's talk about the good.
The blade profile is very awesome. It's sharp, yet thick so I wouldn't be scared to hard use it.
The flipper works well, if the detent were a tad bit straight, it would be amazing.
I like the pocket clip despite it being unfinished. I have always wondered why the hell pocket clips werent made less intrusive yet just as practical, this pocket clip takes the win being low key, yet very much useful.
I also like the incredibly simple construction. Just 3 screws needed to take it apart. (technically there's 5 but 2 dont need to be removed for disassembly).
 
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I would contact John. I briefly met him at blade show, and he seemed like a great guy - and I've never read anything to the contrary. He would know if this is the norm, or just something that slipped past final inspection as well. :)
 
I would send it back to Jon and have him take a look at it. I assume you're talking about one of his customs.

I don't believe he has CNC equipment in his shop unless he is having stuff cut elsewhere and shipped to him. I was in his shop about a year ago visiting.
 
22-rimfire said:
I would send it back to Jon and have him take a look at it. I assume you're talking about one of his customs.

I don't believe he has CNC equipment in his shop unless he is having stuff cut elsewhere and shipped to him. I was in his shop about a year ago visiting.
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It's his Mid tech not a custom (which normally should be pre mfger parts pieced by maker but in this case it's fully made by someone else).

I've sent Jon a msg.
I've seen plenty of images/videos of his customs. They are nothing like this.
 
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Well, the blade is not THAT much off center, but as a whole, that knife is pretty rough. Do not try to sell it. Send it back for replacement and don't take no for an answer. When people buy a high dollar knife and it's buggered, and they pass it on at a lower price it does two things: make you feel like a bitch, and perpetuate the idea that it's ok for a maker to turn out shite. Send that thing back!
 
AntDog said:
Well, the blade is not THAT much off center, but as a whole, that knife is pretty rough. Do not try to sell it. Send it back for replacement and don't take no for an answer. When people buy a high dollar knife and it's buggered, and they pass it on at a lower price it does two things: make you feel like a bitch, and perpetuate the idea that it's ok for a maker to turn out shite. Send that thing back!
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I suppose so. Only issue is can't return to vendor since they're out of stock. Going to wait for Jon Graham's email response.

Also you are correct it isnt as off center however if I keep flipping it open (because I am trying to wear the sticky lock away) it will eventually come way off center and rub the liner. I then have to loose the screws, lift off the scale, then put it back in.
* Loctite seems to help slow this down. Hopefully it prevents it all together once it's cured.
 
So let me get this straight... You can't return the knife because they don't have any more of them? Out of stock? So freaking what? Shouldn't have anything to do with the situation at all. Seems to me like they would be glad to have one to put back into inventory if they were out if stock! If you paid good money for it, and you are not satisfied, you should be be able to send it back and be compensated for what you spent. If they are telling you that can't happen for ANY reason, they are shady and I would like to know their name so I can avoid their business. I would send that sumbitch back - no exceptions, no excuses. You are taking this much more sedately than I would.
 
AntDog said:
So let me get this straight... You can't return the knife because they don't have any more of them? Out of stock? So freaking what? Shouldn't have anything to do with the situation at all. Seems to me like they would be glad to have one to put back into inventory if they were out if stock! If you paid good money for it, and you are not satisfied, you should be be able to send it back and be compensated for what you spent. If they are telling you that can't happen for ANY reason, they are shady and I would like to know their name so I can avoid their business. I would send that sumbitch back - no exceptions, no excuses. You are taking this much more sedately than I would.
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Let's not get ahead of our selves.
I am pretty sure I can send it back for a refund it's probably one of THE best knife stores period. I know for sure they're out of stock because they only received 5, and these knives are being produced in very few batches. Apart from the dealer I bought them from, I don't know any other dealer that has gotten these and are selling them at mfger cost like other dealers would and are doing.

I don't want to send it in for a refund just yet. I'd like to see if this is truly the standard for these mid techs. If it is, then I will get my money back by sending it back or selling it I will then forget about Graham and move on to another maker. If it is a QC failure, I'd like to see it rectified and I'd like to see what a Graham mid tech should be like.

I will wait for Jon Graham's email response to see if this is the norm or not.
 
So you want to make sure if shite quality is the norm or not before sending it back? Oh ok. Good luck sir.
 
If you are pretty sure you can send it back for a refund, and you are unsatisfied with the knife, why not just send it back? Problem solved.
 
AntDog said:
If you are pretty sure you can send it back for a refund, and you are unsatisfied with the knife, why not just send it back? Problem solved.
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Because I like the blade geometry and would like to test it out for EDC. If I test it out, and I don't like the knife because of the issues I mentioned I am out a bit of money for no reason (I may like the blade shape, but if I dont like the rest of the knife I won't keep it thus the whole testing was for no reason).
SO before I start testing I need to figure out of this is norm or not. If it is, then good riddance (ps aftermarket value is higher than mfger cost atm which is another small reason I am not rushing to get rid of it asap).

If it is not meant to be the norm, then I will send it to Graham to be corrected. Giving a mfger a 2nd chance is something I try to practice even if I let my temper get the better of me. (It's a lot of money).

Thanks for the concern.
 
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