RE: BRK Natives v. Spyderco Native...

K

kudzu74

Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
221
Okay, I hope Sal or Carlos might ring in on this matter. I have always considered BRK Natives to be of a lesser quality (though made of Spyderco parts) than the actual Spyderco Native FRNs. I refuse to admit any BRK Native into what I consider my complete collection of production Natives by Spyderco. However, I repeatedly see people (sellers, informed or uninformed) on ebay try to pass the BRK Natives as the geniune Spyderco Native or sort of misled or misrepresent the true identity of the BRK Native. The BRK's from what I know are not covered under Spyderco's Warranty, and I believe the reason for this is because Spyderco did not put them together or rather produce the knife, only the parts. I would ask for the whole story on this matter from someone who is informed though now I have to say something about these 'people' I mentioned above. I've yet to be dupped and hope I can continue to say that by these people into buying a BRK Native. Here is a recent item running on ebay in which you can look at to see what I'm talking about...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2268722365&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

CUSTOM POLISHED, GOLD INLAYED, SPYDERCO NATIVE KNIFE Item number: 2268722365

This time I contacted the seller to inquire about the true identity of the knife. I basically suggested that the knife was not a Spyderco produced knife from the number of notches on the spine of the blade and that it looked like a BRK Native '1st Generation' and if he or/ she could please send me some pictures of the other side of the knife or tell me if it was or wasn't a BRK Native instead of a Spyderco Native. I'm not disputing wether the knife was customized or not...I could care less on that issue. I just didn't like someone trying to pass off an item for something than what it was plainly not. My response from the seller was the following:

To answer your question, I simply don't really know for sure.
I received the knives from a customer to buff, inlay and engrave. They gave me one extra, as a tip I guess.
There is no "writing" on the blade or handle other than the "Spyderco" stamp and "Golden Colorado U.S.A.
I did research the native edition a little after your question.
Although I can't say for sure, the closest knife I saw to this knife was the native light weight.
The knives did however come in a small plastic bag with a camillus warranty, if that helps.
Thanks for your interest.
Ken

I just want to state for the record...I am not trying to ruin this guy's good record (he does have 100% positive feedback on ebay). However, I do not believe it is fair to continue to misrepresent an item if someone informs you of the true identity if you yourself are uninformed on the matter. It is not fair to your would be buyer who my have decided to bid due to good feedback or not have a working knowledge themselves about the item. I have to say though...he is getting a heck of a good deal on his end because the knife is currently selling for $61.00 + shipping! Anyhow, I do respect his answer and further information on the knife which is why I would not touch it with a 10' pole for other than the obvious reason. I guess you can write this off as the imitation may led to the future sales of the geniune article. :p

I would like others to chime in with their opinions on the matter...I was trying to do a thread like this before under a different string name 'Idiots of Ebay'. However, I got a mixed reaction and a negative sentiment on the responses from some people. I prefer to use this method as a sounding board for other would be buyers or sellers of misrepresented Spyderco items wether intentional or not. Thanks again! :p

Btw, the knife actually sold for $61.00 + shipping! :eek:
 
The knife is all spyderco...but not. Spyderco doesn't make many if not most of their knives, they are subcontracted to other manufacturers. Supposed the BRK version of the native is a subcontracting job that resulted in a product that was not acceptable to the company. For some reason, not fully specified, they were subsequently completed and sold. Maybe spyderco couldn't pay the bill and didn't have a good enough contract to have the unassembled knives destroyed. Spyderco could insist they be marked differently, hence the BRK marking. I believe they are technically a cammilus product, hence the warranty from them. They are not "fakes." However, I believe that if the BRK markings have been removed then someone is trying to pull a fast one.

Another weird one is the Wegner SPyderco Mouse. Per these forums, the knife says Spyderco but they don't warranty it. I have one and there is nothing in the box to tell you it doesn't have the spydreco warranty. When I bought it there was also nothing in the AGR catalog to say that either.
 
Another weird one is the Wegner SPyderco Mouse. Per these forums, the knife says Spyderco but they don't warranty it. I have one and there is nothing in the box to tell you it doesn't have the spydreco warranty. When I bought it there was also nothing in the AGR catalog to say that either.
Click to expand...

A kind of private label manufacture for Blade-Tech. They were engineered and manufactured by Spyderco, but designed by Tim Wegner and financed and distributed by Blade-Tech.
 
Well Kudzu, how you choose what will be included in or excluded from your personal collection is your business. I do find it interesting that you, and some others, have made a decision to treat the one Native that most closely matches both Sal's original vision of what the Native was to be (a less expensive alternative to the Delica) and the earliest advertisements for it, including the illustration in the 1998 Spyderco Dealer Catalog. Now granted, that illustration could be just "artwork", but it could also indicate that at least one 440A nine groove C41PBK without BRK markings exists. If so, and if reasonable provenance could be established for it, I'd venture to guess that you'd be fighting me (and, I daresay, at least a couple other Spydernuts) tooth and nail to get to the head of the line to buy it, low quality or not.

To me, the BRK Native represents part of both the overall history of the company and the specific history of the model. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for Sal's decision to reposition the Native as a "high end" FRN folder. Yet, having handled the BRK, I'd be happy to see a return to the nine groove spine, as I find the "feel" more to my liking than that of the six groove version. Comparing a BRK and a "regular" Native can also help someone understand the relationship between the size and shape of the cam, the tension of the backspring, and the feel of a lockback's action.

I do sometimes wonder if, given the way these knives have come to be marketed on eBay, Sal wishes that he'd just scrapped those blades. On the other hand, if I were an eBay seller with no particular knowledge of Spyderco product history, and some self-styled expert were to "inform" me that, despite the SPYDERCO name stamped into the blade, despite the words SPYDERCO NATIVE and the "bug" logo on both sides of the handle, despite the "bug" logo on the clip, I was "misleading" folks by calling these knives Spydercos, I'd probably tell them to get a life.

From the opposite side of the fence, as an eBay buyer, I'd venture to say that purchasing anything without doing your homework decreases your chances of getting your money's worth. But then that holds true in any venue, not just eBay. Me, I bought my BRK with my eyes wide open and paid accordingly. I'll admit, where that one auction is concerned, I found it amusing that someone chose to either dress up a BRK or screw up a really rare Spydie with gold paint, then had the good fortune to find someone willing to pay over sixty bucks for it.
 
My feeling about the BRK Native is that they were screwed up from the start.
I don't think it is wrong for someone to advertise them as Spyderco but if you think about it they really aren't.
These are the things about them that really bother me.
1.They are made in NY by Camilus but are stamped Golden Co.Its fine that Camilius made them but they should have stamped the blades NY.Spyderco does not make their Japan models but they are stamped Seki City Japan
2.They say Spyderco all over them but Spyderco will not touch them if they need W and R work.To me this is the main thing that makes them "NOT SPYDERCO"
They would have been better recieved if they had just been been stamped Camilus-Spyderco "First test run"
At least then people would know why they had to send a Spyderco knife back to Camilus for work.
All and all that aren't that bad of a knife for the money but the way they were brought out was all wrong.
 
I'm confused.
Pretty common occurrance :)
If the BRK is etched on the blade "BRK" and this ebay Native said only Spyderco, then doesn't this mean that
either it isn't a BRK
or the BRK was buffed out
Is the laser BRK mark easily removed?

Is the BRK always marked on the blade or elsewhere.
Tom
 
The BRK is lasered on the blade.It was probably buffed off of this one.A while back one of the sellers on ebay was buffing off the BRK and trying to pass them off.
 
Hey Deacon! I'm not trying to take the issue that deep as to dispute wether or not it should be part of a collection based on timeline production and whatnot (that is personal preference sorta like what Jeff stated)...rather I look at it as someone trying to pass another BRK off for an actually Spyderco Native. I would have to admit that if the blades were stamped something to the affect of Spyderco - Camillus I most likely would add two to my collection. However, as Jeff points out the main reasons...no warranty through Spyderco and such that right there is a disqualification for me on the whole matter. I do agree that if I wanted another swiss army knife type quality knife...a BRK Native single blade folder would probably be ideal for the 'Bang for your Buck' theory and would consider it so for an EDC. Though I have to mention the fact of it being customize was never debated...but its not a customized Spyderco...its a customized BRK Native! So, I feel that wether the seller knew it or not people can precieve it as deceptive or be misled. I like some of what I saw on the posting with Q & A being added into the post, however, I wish that there were more information on the Q & A provided for those uneducated to what type of Native it actually was being sold. Though you did preach it on 'Buyer Beware'. :p
 
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